Among vegans and vegetarians, there are those who choose to do so simply because they prefer it – they do not like to eat meat. And that’s perfectly fine.
However, a lot more people who will say that they are on such a diet decided to stop eating meat for the love of animals, compassion, and in order to stop the killing.
This second group might be wrong and their reasoning is less logical. It may sound contradictory, to say the least, but not only that they participate in the killing of animals just like omnivores do, but they might also even harm animal life more than the meat-eaters.
At least, that’s what claims Claudio Bertonatti, one of the most famous Argentinian naturalists, people who have dedicated their lives to nature.
In his article “The vegan misconceptions“, he warned the readers why by eating vegetables, you still support the killing of animals. This drew the anger of thousands of vegans and vegetarians but also their colleagues who deal with environmental protection.
However, if you listen to his arguments carefully, you must admit that they make some sense.
“I was an ardent vegetarian. As a teenager, I grew up in connection and love for nature. I thought I could avoid killing many animals if I become a vegetarian. Later, I studied that topic a little better, I went into the wilderness and studied the local vegetable-animal world and then I changed my mind, ” explains Bertonatti in an interview for Playground.plus.
“I went to the country to study wildlife. I realized that in the fields of wheat there are no birds, and those few that are found there are persecuted by farmers. As a vegetarian, I actually influenced the less killing of domestic animals, not the wild ones.”
“In Argentina, many think they are fighting for animals if they do not eat meat or wear leather clothes.”
“They think, if there were more vegetarians in the world, fewer animals will be killed. This is not true. From the moment humans began to cultivate cereals and work in the fields, it has already made an impact on nature and especially wildlife.
There are no animal species that are not connected to the system, the survival of some depends on death, whether directly or indirectly. I understand that this knowledge can be painful. I’d like to live in an ideal world,” he explains.
“When I say this, many feel under attack. Rice, corn, pastry … most vegetarians eat it. The first impact of such food production is the loss of forests. We are forcing nature to make room for crops. Many rainforests around the globe disappeared due to wheat and cornfields. And we continue destroying nature by preventing the birds to feed. Many farmers use poisons against these birds.
For other animals, they put electric fences or scare them away with guns. So, if you eat meat, you participate in killing animals. But if you eat vegetables, again, you participate in the killing of animals. But this time, you are helping in killing the wild animals,” says Bertonatti.
Should vegans abandon their diet because they can’t possibly cause zero animal deaths? From his PlayGround interview, it appears that renowned Argentine naturalist Claudio Bertonatti thinks they should.
Watch the video:
So what are your thoughts on this? Do Bertonatti’s statements make any sense to you? I personally think he needs to do some more research!
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This Post Has 865 Comments
A lot of that food production and deforestation is specifically to feed the animals that will feed humans. Why not just eat the crops and let those animals live? Grow your own food Mkay?
sorry – i didnt meant to reply to your specific post, i meant to just comment in general – to clarify, i totally agree with your comment! it’s spot on!
Watch this and you understand that eating meat is even a way to save the earth 🙂
wrong……we grow tonnes more grain to feed the animals we eat so for those wild animals that may lose their habitat things would not change. less domestic animals would exist if we didn’t breed them for food freeing up thousands of acres of land.
Exactly like Carol says, no one thinking you can live without hurting anyone we are trying to minimize the impact and there is no question it will work.
His argument is invalid. His reasoning is faulty. The amount of forest razed to grow enough grain to feed factory farmed animals is many times more than what is required to feed a vegan populace. Water, fossil fuels, pesticide runoff are also 4-8 times greater than would be expended for vegan needs. 8 times as many fossil fuels, 4 times as much water, etc. are required to produce animal protein.
What are the cows fed? Grain. For years. To provide a few meals. If that grain is used to feed people instead of cows, then it feeds a lot more people. A vegetarian diet results in less death than a meat eating diet. Really, how can someone write an article about this and not have done the research to take into account that meat producers rely on massive volumes of grain to produce the meat, making the whole point of the article invalid?
You conveniently forget one important detail, however – animals utilize plant food better than humans. It is more efficient and environment-friendly to feed the grain to animals than to eat it directly. In exchange, animals give us more protein, more energy and more vital nutrients.
Lyubomir Ivanov So 1 kg of beef is more nutitious than 25 – 50 kgs of grains needed to grow it? LOL!!!
Lyubomir Ivanov I’m not an expert on how efficient different animals are at utilizing food. But think about this: for how many years was that cow fed grain until it reached the age where it could be slaughtered for human food? When you consume that meat, all those years of feeding the animal grain also was necessary. Even if the animal is slightly more efficient at utilizing the grain, it can’t compare to the alternative which is to just feed the grain directly to humans. All those years of grain go to feed humans, or we still farm all of that grain, except we just end up with one animal worth of food. They both use the same amount of grain, but the vegetarian option feeds far more people.
MH … This chart or meme or whatever it is is misleading in that the percentages are along different scales.
Here we go…
My guess is that someone made this chart by combining data from a chart about vegetables and a chart about meat. Each of the two charts that got combined was true, but they were measuring protein content two different ways. The combined chart is wrong, because it shows the two different measurements like they’re the same thing, which they aren’t. The person who combined the two charts didn’t read them very carefully, or maybe found the charts without any information explaining them and didn’t realize they were different.
The vegetables measure protein as a percentage of total calories.
100 grams of spinach has 23 calories:
.4 grams of fat (3.6 calories – fat is 9 calories per gram)
1.9 grams of sugar (7.8 calories – sugar and protein are 4 calories per gram)
2.9 grams of protein (11.6 calories)
So of the 23 calories, 11.6 are from protein. That’s 50%, about what’s in the chart.
The meats measure protein as a percentage of total weight.
100 grams of chicken has 161 calories:
9 grams of fat (81 calories)
0 grams of carbohydrate (0 calories)
20 grams of protein (80 calories)
So of the 100 grams, 20 are from protein. That 20% is close to the 23% in the chart.
To make a true chart that actually compared vegetables and meat, we would need to measure protein in vegetables and meats the same way.
Both measurements by calories:
Spinach: 11.6 calories out of 23 calories = 50% protein
Chicken: 80 calories out of 161 calories = 50% protein
Both measurements by weight:
Spinach: 2.9 grams out of 100 = 3% protein
Chicken: 20 grams out of 100 = 20% protein
So spinach and chicken both give you about the same amount of protein per calorie, but there’s a lot fewer calories in spinach. As NJ mentioned, vegetables are mostly water. So you have to eat way more vegetables to get a specific amount of protein.
You would need to eat 2 kilograms of spinach (4 pounds) a day to get all your daily protein from it. I would not enjoy that at all. 🙂
Miguel Sanchez I rode a bicycle across Europe last year. I survived on loaves of bread and fruit/vegetables, and pasta. I didn’t eat any meat. I crossed the alps twice. By the end I felt very strong. Better than at the beginning. How did I get enough protein, given that I paid no attention to protein intake (or any nutrients)? I don’t say that to brag. Others have completed more impressive cycling trips. But I don’t understand how people can say that vegetarians/vegans must struggle to get enough protein, given that there are plenty of vegetarians/vegans doing perfectly alright. Did you know that too much protein has been linked to cancer? But supermarkets sell foods artificially crammed with huge quantities of protein.
Malati Devi Dasi Grain isn’t very good for us, turns out.
Are you taking to account the fuc*ing land that we need to feed 7 billion of people AND much more animals? Much smarter people than you and me thought of this idea already, but why isn’t it implemented yet, because you are going to either starve humans or either starve animals. Just think of it. Around 37% of the world’s land was considered agricultural land. “Christian Peters informs us that “a person following a low-fat vegetarian diet, for example, will need less than half (0.44) an acre per person per year to produce their food”
“Surprisingly, however, a vegetarian diet is not necessarily the most efficient in terms of land use” he continues
The reason is simple – fruits, vegetables, and grains must be grown on high-quality arable cropland. Livestock based foods (such as meat and dairy products from ruminant animals) are supported by lower quality, and far more widely available, lands that are only capable of supporting pastures.
So, based on the last set of global census data (2008) we would require 3,068,444,911 acres of arable land. At that time, the global population was 6 billion and if a global one-child program had been enacted, the ~3,212,369,959 of arable land that was globally available may very well have sufficed.
Not including the figures for degraded land, Earth is currently losing, due to a range of factors, arable land at the conservative rate of 1% a year. Thus, a more accurate current figure is far closer to that of 3,024,382,549 acres.
However … we now have a global population that has already crossed the 7,000,000,000 mark, thus the number of arable acres required is far closer to 3,080,000,000 – or put another way, Earth now has a shortfall of ~55,617,451 acres … and rising. In short, we have passed “peak land” and our growing population requires far more arable land than we currently have available to provide the nutrition required for all of those people in a vegan form.
As iterated, livestock is supported by lower quality (but far more widely available) land that can support pasture and hay. Thus, any claim that presumes we could simply remove the livestock and start growing vegetable or crop-based foods on the existing farm land is flawed.”
Lyubomir Ivanov You really believe that? You just made that up. It does not even stand up to casual acknowledgement let alone scrutiny. If you r point was the case we could be able to magicly double the calories available by passing them through a cow. Twerp!
I’m really sorry that so many people think we are trying to promote a specific idea or something. Our purpose is just to bring a topic for discussion and give some food for thought, that’s all.
As the first lines of the article stated:
“Among vegans and vegetarians, there are those who choose to do so simply because they prefer it – they do not like to eat meat.
And that’s perfectly fine!!!!!!”
We don’t have any kind of problem with vegans or meat eaters. Everyone is free to eat whatever he/she wants. Before you start to blame a whole website, please keep in mind that a specific article might just be the personal opinion of the author.
I think we still have democracy, so everyone is free to eat whatever he wants! Also everyone is free to think and say his opinion, some of you are overreacting to this article!
What if someone wants to eat a dog or a cat? Would that be ok with you? If you were from Yulin it may be, not so much if you are from USA. If you were from India eating cow may be worse than someone from Yulin eating dog. If you were from Iran or Israel/Palestine eating pork would be equally bad. If you were Texan eating horse would be terrible, but if you are Italian it’s perfectly fine. My question is, aren’t dogs, cats, cows, chickens, fish, pigs, goats, iguanas, all sentient beings that understand they are being tortured? Would you want to be farmed by a hypothetical species of aliens smarter than us?
Here we go again with this nonsense from an obvious meat eater and not a vegan. Bought and paid by the meat industry, enjoy your propaganda folks. We all know that most of these farms are used for animal agriculture. Stop with the bs.
Rachael I agree with you 100% This article is absolute nonsense and 100% Fodder/Shite!
This argument is only partially correct. For growing meat & other nonveg lots of vegetarian food is consumed which could be directly consumed by people also. Only these creatures are grown for our sake. Dosen’t that harm the ecosystem?
Rubbish, eating game and wild animals maybe. But domestic animals consume vast volumes of grown plant food just to produce meat.
Twisted logic from a moron
Are you kidding me with this article? Our planet loses acres and acres of rainforest daily to create grazing pastures for cows!
Your logic is flawed. The grains grown to feed animals are exponentially more than what humans consume. If you eat factory farmed meat, that meat has consumed 10x the energy (through grains). So if grains are the problem your doing exponentially more damage and consuming far more grains by eating meat. This is a stupid article and I’m not even a vegan.
I do understand this concept. However, the one fact this author neglects to mention is the majority of land that has caused deforestation is actually used to grow feed for animals and is not for human consumption…it’s a fact.
This is so flawed. You do not destroy the rainforest to make room for agricultural crops. Crop farming uses a fraction of land that animal factory farming does. This guy is an idiot. It’s animal agriculture that uses up all the land and pollutes the atmosphere, lakes, rivers and streams with animal waste and gases.
The key is to try and live a more self sufficient lifestyle.
Give me a call when the shuttle lands Claudio
Who said vegans think they don’t kill animals? They just try their best not to add to the unnecessary abuse and to avoid, to the best of their ability, killing animals. On the other hand, most vegans are not disillusioned to the fact that to live, something has to die, be it plants, or unfortunately somewhere along the line, animals.
Lol right?!? My goodness… Do they believe I will run out and eat meat now that I’ve read this? Um no! It’s unhealthy and full of hormones and chemicals. Not to mention… It’s someones baby ❤
Yes, I m just doing my part to not, be involved with the cruel slaughtering houses!!
yeah just one flaw in your brilliant logic
animals-> have eyes, feel pain, have a central nervous system.
go pick a flower and then go stab a dog and lemme know if it’s still ‘all the same’ lol
hm I meant it metaphorically but totally see your point.
violence isn’t ok in any scenario, I was just taken aback by how someone could compare a plant with a living creature and got heated. (not to say I don’t love my plants of course)
It’s not possible to live without impacting the environment. Vegetarians and vegans just generally choose a lifestyle that has the smallest impact possible.
It’s the supply and demand part of economics, right? Fewer people eat meat, leading to less demand for meat, leading to fewer animals being mass-slaughtered. At least that’s what the guy I’m seeing says. He’s vegetarian so he explained this to me. I eat meat so I mostly figured that if the animals are already dead, why let them go to waste? But that probably just adds to the problem. So breakfast today is a meatless salad
Sustainability? Well what would you say when i say you can live a better healthier life and not eat meat? Is that sustainable enough for you? Silly silly comment
All these people saying plants don’t feel and aren’t aware or alive are fucking legit moron’s. Plants respond to a wide range of emotions and physical contact. Fucking science y’all. Just cause you don’t understand their consciousness doesn’t mean they are mindless things that are just there for consuming. You make it out to be superior to eat plants cause it isn’t killing something that’s alive, when in fact a plant is more alive then you could comprehend. Most of you should get your facts straight before coming to a pin point conclusion on how things work.
Nikki J Nichole Carson The same can be said for the plants you eat. If it comes from your garden or your pen, or some certainly safe source, then it’s healthy and without any chemicals or hormones. Most meat is healthy in normal amounts, excluding red meat. Overdose of anything can hurt or kill us.
Do plants look like this!
Plants are setient we all know that, but i would rather eat the plant , than eat the cow which man had to destroy plant life to put there and also feed the cow plant life which to then have the cow produce enough green house gases to slowly destroy the world,its pretty simple really cause as little damage as possible,thats a fact too
Hester Grove please STFU. If you knew anything about grasses you would know that there is a lot of food that come from grasses. I hate when non well informed citizens try to make someone else seem stupid out of anger. Do some research on grasses Hester!
Maeve come on now. We all know what plants look like. Did you mean to say does a plant go through the same abuse as this animal??
Bro callum come on man! We all know what we use to farm your plants and veggies. And those machines also cause pollution and global warming on a mass scale. Your car you drive everyday is destroying the world. Just cause you pick a lesser evil doesn’t mean you’re saving the world. That’s a fact.
Who said i was saving the world? Im causing as little damage as possible as i previously stated And the machines used to farm my veggies are a minute fraction compared to how much methane your cows produce
Just try their best. How does that change anything?
23 times less to be precise
Your veggies or your grains? Because they are not even remotely comparable in terms of environmental impact.
animal agriculture-> 24% of greenhouse gas emissions
all forms of transportation combined-> 13%
changing regular practices of both would of course be ideal, but one is a much more simple lifestyle change
Jordan Gifford obviously we all know what plants look like! But do they bleed? Or shriek in pain when they are cut open? Do they mourn the loss of a baby? Do vegans cause less suffering than omnivorous? Which would you honestly prefer to live life knowing you’re hurting a living, breathing vertebrae that forms social bonds with members of its own species and even other species, very much like ourselves or to eat a plant! Not everyone understands it but the vegans do ❤️
Some People just want to make excuses for eating meat.
Collum your argument clearly states that you rather eat a plant instead of a cow. Solely on the basis of it not producing green house gases that destroy the world. Which in turn is you trying to save the planet. Wake the fuck up bro. Your car does damage to the planet. Your lights being on. You watching TV. When you charge your phone. Basing your food off the believe it’s doing good for the planet/environment is the last thing you should be complaining about. And I’m not even going to get into the sustainability thing cause I could go off for days on some real shit.
Maeve seriously? Your response is because the plants cant outwardly express itself emotionally it should be treated differently than an animal. Wow. Biased much? And just cause you have no clue about plants and how they are alive in their own way, doesn’t make it right or OK to say killing this organism is worse than killing the other.
What part of do as little damage as possible did you not fathom?
Awesome comment Anne-Marie very true
Jordan Gifford yes! Many studies have shown plants reacting to emotions. Like a study put with terminally I’ll patients. They raised the plants from seedlings, and as the patient got weaker and closer to death the aura of the plants demolished. Especially upon death of the patient, they also showed plants only reacting to certain types of music. No rhym or reason for the particular genre each plant flourished with, they just did. Plants have “male” and “female” , plants have an aura that can be photographed just as any other living thing.
Doubt most think this
Thank you Anne-Marie Bevan much more intelligent and educated answer. I’m not vegan although I’ve been leaning toward it more over the past couple of years. Strictly based on how horribly our food animals are treated and dispatched. I appreciate your reply here.
I’m hearing you. It’s not hard to live the vegan lifestyle, either. I’ve been vegan for almost 2 years, and I’m physically fine.
Vegans think they don’t kill animals and they assume that because they aren’t eating meat, they aren’t adding to the suffering of animals. But they are. To live is to take the life of something else. There’s nothing you can do to escape that, your existence is using up something else’s resources and life. Is that a bad thing? Only if you don’t take advantage of it to do the best you can be, because your body will eventually be given back to sustain lives.
As far as I know no reputable study has ever shown that plants can “feel pain”. They lack the nervous system and brain necessary for this to happen. A plant can respond to stimuli, for example by turning towards the light or closing over a fly, but that is not the same thing. It is also hard to see what purpose pain could serve for the plant, since they can hardly run away. I am aware however that similar arguments were put up in the past in favour of animals not feeling pain! Supposing you decide that it is cruel to eat plants, since they are alive and presumably have sensations of some sort, what are you going to eat? Not a lot left on the menu if meat, and veg are removed, is there? If it is alright so long as you “kill” them first, how is this to be done? Is boiling them alive acceptable? Perhaps it is alright to eat fruit, since the plant sheds these of its own accord, but seeds and nuts are out as they are embryos !
Susan Deal, Sheffield, UK
Plants have automatic reflexes. To compare it to animals nervous system and to invalidate the animals we murder would be a shitty thing to do. Go and pick an apple, simple right
Now go slit the throat of a cow.. not as easy unless you are missing some vital parts in your mind. Please make the connection.
People love to lie so they can rationalize killing.
The justification for confining, torturing, mutilating and killing other living, feeling beings debunked in 1 min. Non-vegans: please stop making excuses and go VEGAN. ✌️http://bit.ly/2hZrqmH
Maurice Antoine There are two paths.
One condones animal abuse, environmental destruction, species extinction, rainforest destruction. Violence and health problems and rising sea levels.
The other does not.
i am not vegetarian to save animals. I am vegetarian because i don’t like to eat animals..big difference.
He stated that.
Wow, this author has no idea that most crops provide food for farm animals.
Farm animals we kill to eat so if there was no plants no killing of them animals
The opposite, if we didn’t eat animals, they wouldn’t be breeded in so a huge amount and so there wouldn’t be the deforestation to grow the crops to feed them. And there is also the deforestation to host the intensive farmings.
Bread, pasta, flour, rice, sugar, sunflowers, canola….are you sure most crops provide food for “farm animals”?
Yes… farm animals like pigs and cows eat a lot more than humans.
Then there should be population control which is never discussed. We have taxed the planet into a bleak future. Wait till the methane burbs in the siberian ice shelf – we will boil to death in a month or two. All planets and animals will die except those rich enough to buy bunkers in New Zealand.
It should be discussed. The number one threat to the environment is human population itself. We need a 2 kid minimum. Adopt, don’t breed.
^that depends on quality of life expected. Ie, home size, eating habits, minimalistic degree of lifestyle in general. Theres rumors the rothschilds could shelter, feed, and clothe every human on this planet 3 times over. Its a matter of living alongside nature. In our current state, hell no. No one should have more than 4 kids. But, if we all lived all natural, in smarter homes….maybe not such a big problem
This is silly. Animals are going to do either way. If a vegan or vegetarian want to eat vegetables fine, maybe they feel like they are not directly responsible for that particular animals death.
Foreal, they just wipe their hands clean like Pontius Pilate.
Excuse me, can you please explain how by not eating animals, I only “feel like” I am not directly responsible for a particular animal’s death? When I don’t ever use animal products, I don’t see how you think I’m still somehow responsible for pigs dying? Being vegan, for me, is I doing what I can. Just because I can’t do it all, doesn’t mean I won’t do something. And being vegan is a pretty huge something. Don’t knock it til you’ve tried it.
Lisa Jackson I was not ‘knocking’ anything. It seems to me that you didn’t read the article or you would understand my comment.
I think the bigger issue here is the way animals and plants are raised. Eating meat is okay if the animals are raised in a humane way. He has a point, destroying the earth to grow plants isn’t right either. Plants also need to be grown in a way that is respectful to the earth.
there is no humane way in killing animals or humans i guess
It’s a hard subject. I mean animals kill other animals to eat them, but I see where you are coming from.
another excuses for holocaust…. human race in herbivore get over it!!!! and the killing of bird and wild animals in crops is becos farmers is uneducated and no vegans ….
Omnivore all day everyday.
I go both ways
Am I wrong by saying we need more crop etc for feedIng to animals than we would need to feed us plant based? So at all still more dead animals by eating meat, no?
modern agriculture is killing the land and the bees in some countries. Don’t be a hypocrite see both sides of the story. The only way not to kill animals if you’re e vegan is growing your own vegetables and eat only what you are growing, but good luck with implementing this mentality on the entire humanity, when the majority of humans have no respect for their bodies and souls. On top of this humans lack the knowledge and time to do this. So yeah, I’ll repeat myself… don’t be a hypocrite
I try bro, you’re right.
No, you’re not wrong.
That is right. An omni doet requires far more vegetables and water and power than simply eating the vegetables themselves.
You are right Ionvs, but you will never convince those who don’t want to hear it. Like with cigarettes companies the meat industry only have to disseminate enough miss information to make people think ‘I don’t know what to believe’ and so people will carry on eating what they most enjoy.
No, because some of the land cattle lives on isnt able to crow crops due to the soil (so the cattle is given hay bales etc) and then forest is destroyed to make ro for fields that can grow the vegies we need
If you care about your health, the environment OR animals, please check out these life-changing documentaries. Thanks for caring! http://bit.ly/2gusC4A
Don’t wear them lol
I think this so called naturalist should spend a few hours in a factory farm or slaterhouse- better yet watch earthlings… nothing natural or humane about how we abuse, torture and enslave all animals in horrifying conditions. I would rather have all those animals killed then live through a lifetime of abuse and exploitation. It’s about compassion to their lives and conditions, not merely killing animals.
Heres a simpler explanation. Vegetarians should not eat organic vegetables or fruit as organic fertilizer is made from mainly animal products.
Organic fertiliser is made from blood and bone.
Meat is the best 🙂
Why not just scroll on by for those who don’t like this instead of spewing out so much negativity…seriously
Well.. It makes me just think. Why is this group posting this bs. Why bs? Livestock feeds on grain. All the point of this article disproved in 1 sentence. And btw, it’s called feedback. 🙂 have a nice day.
It’s illogical information, that’s why people speak up. If the argument fails, why allow it to be cemented as fact?
20-26 people could be fed on the same amount of feed that is grown for cattle. There are estimates that 8 billion people could be fed right now, a plant-based diet if the meat industry were to go away. We don’t quite have 8 billion people but the evidence is against this guy.
Yeah, going to say something in opposition when there is evidence or logic to refute it.
This point of view is kind of shit. The amount of “killed wildlife” against the number of thousands killed animals on Animal slaughterhouses is incredible ridiculous, it doesn’t make sense to compare them. Also vegan and vegetarians are helping with climate change, do the meat eaters do the same?.. i’m not agree with his point of view.. go a keep drinking mate viejoooo !
The amount of animals killed because of large scale crop cultivation machines and poison from those crops is just as high. Insects count in this mix as they are animals.
well, in term of numbers, you will never end with insect population as they born in exponencial way.. and if you give me to choose between killing insects or cows for decrease the climate change i rather kill insects that are not in the world main diets.. probably frogs can make a demonstration lol
you also have to take in account of the natural balance that the earth maintains, if something gets out of hand, she corrects it, ie predators or a sissy fit which she will have if we dont stop heading away from god and nature.
i mean god as the standard morals of the heart in its original natural state and universal consciousness.
david could not have said it any better. Anythingelse is just splitting hairs.
go local, go organic. spread your wealth between yourselves and stop giving it away to hoarders at the top without a true heart.
Find wealth in other things and read the china study
If people stopped eating meat, what would happen with all the domesticated animals like cows and chickens? They’d go off into the wild, breed and boom in population, cows alone would increase the amount of methane going into the atmosphere by tonnes
Elegost Dale most likely they would be culled so there would be more land to grow plants, everyone knows you need to eat a hell of alot more plants to stay full than meat
David you’re some kind of stupid. Vegans and vegetarians are helping with climate change? Man gtfoh. You think the machines harvesting all the plant based foods run on air?
Unless vegans stop eating grains they are contributing heavily to loss of diversity and the wildlife ecology. If vegans want to be helpful they need to stick with vegetables.
And what exactly is fed to farm animals? Air? The argument against veganism and its effect on environment is invalid if you eat meat or other animal products since you consume not only animal products/meat itself but also all the soya/grains/other crops and food that was required to sustain animal’s life in the first place.
Lina, the difference between cows and humans is that you can literally let a cow roam in a field with perennial grass without having to use machines, for humans to survive off of just plants, you need to use machines to cultivate the large amount of veggies and fruits for us to live off of. Cows eat prickly pear too wherever it’s abundant.
I don’t think insects is “splitting hairs” at all. If you want to really speak to animal death then ALL life counts. You cannot select what fits your argument best. You have to see the entire picture for what it is. As humans we need to do better in it all. Not eating meat isn’t the end all solution
Vanessa Vieira its a start
Robert Cortes What prevents humans from growing their own food if they complain about environmental damage? How much machinery is used to cultivate food for farm animals? Also, got to mention that not many farmers keep cows outside as most dairy cows, for example, spend their time inside being hooked to milking machines – it’s a business, not a sanctuary and people are making money out of it. If you are trying to create a picture of a happy cow roaming a field as shown on TV for gullible people to watch, please do a research on how detrimental meat and dairy industry is not only to animals themselves, but also environment. This is fueled by demand for meat and animal products, it leads to increased breeding and higher demand for food in order to feed these animals, which results in having to produce more food to feed animals than to feed people. Not to mention clean water usage and disposal of toxic animal feces – again, very damaging to environment.
Jordan Gifford The EPA has also recognized the contribution cow farts are making to Earth’s greenhouse gases, stating earlier that globally, livestock are the “largest source of methane from human-related activities,” and are the third largest source of methane in the U.S. A 1995 study of methane emissions from cattle found that cows typically lose about 6 percent of their ingested energy as methane, partly a result of their slow digestive process. A single cow can produce between 250 and 500 liters, or about 66 to 132 gallons, of methane a day (the average U.S. vehicle gas tank can hold about 16 gallons of gas). no more things to said.. i’m stupid you are ignorant buddy!! if you take this to a big scale i’m still right over your “theory of harvesting machines pollution”.. lol
David, you’re still pretty stupid. Comparing a 16-gallon car to a 700 gallon or bigger harvesting machine that refuels multiple times a day. That’s 1,000s of gallons for just one. And there are millions of those things. Some so big they don’t release specifications for them. And there aren’t any studies on them cause the World Bank owns all of the agriculture. Screw your study in 1995. It’s all biased cause the World Bank doesn’t want to stop making billions. It’s not a theory. It’s real and happening right now. Science says the meat industry causes 18 percent of the methane globally and the methane created will dissipate within 6-12 years. Meanwhile, the world Bank says it causes 50 percent of the Earth’s methane emissions. Hmmm, should I trust money hungry looking to screw over anyone and everyone or some scientist not bought by big banks or corporations?
A lot of crops that are grown as broad-acre monocultures heavily reliant on pesticides and herbicides have effects well beyond the boundaries of the production areas into water tables and catchments. The goal is to have large areas or a singe crop replacing the previous ecosystems and everything in them. Cattle rangeland grazing still supports much broader and extensive populations of other animals and plants. So he has a point. Some studies I have seen claim up to 25 times more animals are killed or lost in cropping. A good example would be in the conversion of forests to palm oil plantations and in the deaths to orangutans directly from clearing and burning for the creation of those plantations and indirectly from the loss of food sources and habitat. So no cause to be smug…
Real vegans don’t consume palm oil.
Please don’t kill the plants, they produce oxygen from carbon dioxide…
Sean Daws soya is having much the same impacts in south america. And because more crops of the total agricultural area is being diverted to ethanol production more land gets cleared including more marginal land and also leading to overuse of existing crop land and soil depletion. “Real” vegans are just as responsible as everyone else.
This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. What does he think livestock animals eat? That’s right: they eat plants. Tons and tons and tons of plants, far more than a vegetarian or a vegan ever could. And those plants have to be grown somewhere.
That’s your argument? Animals eat tons of plants? Not too bright lmao
You’re clearly not to bright because she obviously meant his argument is invalid as people need to grow crops to feed animals, if the growing and harvesting of crops is responsible for killing wildlife, then the meat industry is still contributing to more killing because it takes a lot more crops to feed farm animals than it does to feed humans.
Yeah. The argument is that far more plants go into feeding food animals than go into a vegetarian/vegan’s diet. Thus, while still inevitably causing some harm, theirs is greatly reduced.
I think it very obvious that that was the intended logic.
Not to mention that you need place where to grow the animals and the food of the animals.
Scott Bell, You just made a dumbass out of yourself. Seriously…
That doesn’t mean he deserves your harsh reactions. Why?
because he was the one insulting her in the first place? (not too bright) while being wrong, just saying.. might even be just another internet troll, that’s how stupid his argument is
Exactly well said
Exactly well said
Calling people not too bright and using big words like dumbass… WOW.. you really showed us… youre so intelligent we should immediately agree with you. Regardless if you agree with anyone else. Youre adding nothing of value to the conversation therefore, based on what you alone have presented us about yourself, you are nothing but a keyboard troll!
They eat grains and whatever they are fed..
But that does not negate the argument. It is true. Grain fields and their maintenance contribute directly and indirectly to the killing of animals.
Scott Bell scary how you totally missed the point. Like, wow.
You sound like you need a steak
I think he means that grazing animals like cows for milk and meat do not have the farmers destroying birds that are a pest to horticulturalists growing food crops. This is mainly true although beef growers in some climates have to lot feed animals grains during winter. This is usually the lower grade cereals. Beef farmers tend to destroy fox and rabbits and spread natural manure to enrich the Pasteur. These are environmental pests. He has a strong case for free grazing animals.
GMO corn grows like weeds. Nothing can kill em but they will kill you in the long run. No big deal, you have a recliner & TV. What more could a person need ♀️
Most factory animals are fed a product made from broken down Corn. Not “tons and tons of plants”. Corn is cheapest to feed them, so that’s what they use.
I only eat grass fed meat. Aka cows that eat wild grass……
SOLUTION IS TO ONLY EAT WILD ANIMALS KILLED FROM HUNTING? THEN WHOLE WORLD CAN BE NATURAL AND WILD, NO NEED FOR LAND TO GROW CROPS
So y’all are telling me that me and my son’s goin out in November and shooting several deer each is wrong?
Actually a lot of livestock eat the parts of a harvest which humans cant eat. That or they graze.
Free range livestock. Not that crazy of an idea. I haven’t noticed many feed lots in my area for over a decade. Boulder CO is huge for sustainably farmed everything from local farms tho…
Just a quick reminder that 80% of the soy crops produced worldwide are destined for cattle feeding. We could easily live just with a portion of the land tended to. That means that most places would be left untouched. I would also like to say that there are small Brazilian tribal communities that plant their greens in the jungle’s soil, they don’t even need to cut down trees for that matter. There is also a huge advantage in seaweed production, since it doesn’t even need soil or desalinated salt in it’s production, and it’s rich in proteins and many minerals, plus it can also be transformed into fuel. It can even be grown within certain toxicity levels.
Anna Ann you didn’t read it either did you? Most meat is grass fed in wide open pastures.
Those plants replenish on their own and are not affected by humans clearing land for crops. Natural systems worked exceptionally well until humans got to greedy and too many to respect those systems. He is absolutely correct. Most livestock no longer eat plants and grass they are fed on crop waste and other cheap alternatives even skiddles candy because it’s cheaper than corn. Nature and animals lived in symbiosis until man thought he knew better and our populations and greed became more than nature could handle.
The words right out of my brain!!
same goes for the monumental amounts of land needed to grow plant food for humans sunshine
Corn is a plant
Grass bitch. Grass
Do vegans eat grass?
Then y do u have canine and incisor teeth, break them off u fokin vegan shit
Fair point… HOWEVER! As the guy says, the moment agriculture came to be the environment already started to change… if you don’t kill the livestock they live longer meaning you have to feed more, free them and they will destroy the ecosystem, the ecosystem with them now is essentially “controlled”, it would be chaotic destruction otherwise, eat them or don’t eat them, the stage we are at in life is death anyway, you’re not better than those who eat meat, they aren’t better than you, we are however consuming our natural diet, you choose not to thinking it’ll make a difference, and many vegans just plainly think arrogantly of themselves, not all, but many
Ru seriously that void of understanding,the plants that animals eat are not grown somewhere,they come from nature,what he is saying makes absolutely perfect sense, clearly he got his reasoning from observation as opposed to the simple minded people who get their information from the TV set or a super market tabloid
Couldn’t have put it better myself!
Thos canines tho
Gotta murder animals because teeth.
It’s hilarious when the guy who resorts to personal insults just so happens to be the one with reading difficulties ;
Enter the prize dumb ass , Scott Bell ! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Ya they’re actually taking up 30% of the worlds land mass with the food we grow for them! So if you want to depend less on industrial agriculture and reduce your impact you will eat closer to the source, just plants
Pmsl mass production of meat cows etc dont get to eat in fields lol most are fed on man made products to make them fat lol another deluded veggy
Sean Daws you saying that to kill for food makes you a murderer or you being sarcastic because of the image? If your being legitimate then many primates, many mammals, reptiles, birds and fish are “murderers”, there are vegan sites that will falsely tell you chimpanzees eat very little meat if any at all because their biologically herbivores… in fact many of our physiological traits do suggest herbivorous dietary needs, unfortunately for vegans and their lying websites we do have a number of physiological traits that allow us to digest meat, where pure herbivores cannot do so at all… that indicates an omnivorous diet, it’s not just about teeth, only thing that needs to be changed about the meat industry is the treatment and methods, just as the indigenous people of all lands were respectful of animals including their own pray
Ryan Pal Skittles candy too. Along with faeces.
Ben Boltwood please explain how GMO grain comes from nature?
Lawrence Adam-Fiorillo If you are a natural omnivore then you should be able to eat meat in its raw state like the animals you quoted. You can with vegetables.
This debate is so old and annoying
Sounds fair enough 🙂
Only people who live the lifestyle of vegetarianism linked with spirituality will untimately know the truth not people who claim to know yet rejoice in ignorance
Yes! Wise words
*veganism ☺ x
Vegans have no spirituality that’s just the lack of nutrients making them delusional
It’s not very spiritual to kill and then eat the flesh of your victim. Name a nutrient…vitamin…mineral that is only found in meat?
Connecting plant murder with spirituality..is it really wise? Remember,we are born omnivore.. Name a vegan saint..there are none.. Even Jesus eat fish..
Yes, of course, some farmers do kill animals to protect their crops. But they have a choice, they don’t have to kill every time nor all animals. There are also new developing ways to grow produce in controlled environment limiting wild animals contact.
Eating meat does require direct killing of the animal you eat, and it also requires to feed those meat-animals, with crops that are intensively grown and whose farmers do kill animals to protect their crop. Those farmers generally don’t go through the expense or trouble of finding alternative ways to grow their crops either.
So while, unless you stop eating anything altogether may prevent the killing of animal the most, not eating meat and not wearing animal skins does significantly reduce the killing of animals, especially in horrific conditions, more that doing nothing.
On top of that, eating meat is not healthy and also kills people.
Plants are living organisms too
The smell of fresh cut grass is actually a chemical released by the plants due to stress! Basically they are screaming in smell!
Trees communicate with each other too
They communicate with everything! Those scents are the language they use to talk to each other, animals,and insects.
If you use logic you can see he is quite wrong. But it is true that a lot of vegan people are not so friendly with the environment as they like to think.
The idea of the article is: “if someone must die, why don’t we kill everyone?”. A stupid falacy. And the article is old.
BULLSHIT! Farmers are working in land anyway to feed the animals they are going to eventually be killed in the slaughter houses for you to eat. 40% of the worlds harvest goes to animal feedings, which this translates to 30% of earth’s land mass. Not to mentions the numbers on water consumption and air pollution animal farms produce. And to conclude this a vegan diet is 15 times less harmful to our mother earth than a meat eater. DON’T be fooled by these paid commercials for meat industry trying to convince you to keep eating animals.
And where does the animals get their food from? Come on!!
Makes sense. Nice article
what does he think are animals eating ? i think there are so many rainforest gone just to provide food for the animals which need a lot miore than humans..
and of course he s from argentina…;-)
They destroy more forests and jungles for agriculture and plant based food than animmal feeding. Im with all of you with nature protection. but the problem is not what we eat, the problem is our lost memory of our relationship with nature.
Livestock and humans should not be eating grains in the first place.
Livestock should only be eating grass. Free range. And you grow one patch of grass to the side and let it die (hay) for them to eat through winter. No crops, just grass.
Barry Karyab i did not discard that animals also affect the loss of forests, i only said what i said. READ.
I’m a vegetarian (Working my way to vegan eventually)by the fact it makes my body feel better and more energized. The way the article describes how we’re killing animals is a process of mass production. Yes no matter what we do animals will die. And plants are living consciousness entities too. Anyone who doesn’t think so is deluding themselves (they have memories and communicate proven by science). But vegans cause is to cause as little suffering as possible. In slaughterhouses animals are tortured as well as in dairy farms. I had to protest pizza for months because the companies were allowing their workers to stab cows for the fun of it. I’ve been stabbed before it doesn’t feel nice. Mostly reading that article my first thought was they are doing it wrong. That is a wrong way to make food. Personalized gardens to produce your own food. If have to hunt do it minimally and make sure the animal does not suffer. The old ways were best. No pesticide, No poisons, share the food. As for populace control I agree there are too many of us. In basic ecology they teach every species has a natural predator that keeps them from
Over populating where is our predator ? If we do not have one why? If we do not have one it is up to us to control our population level by birthing restrictions. More so now that we have technology on the horizon that could make us live for a thousand years.
Families are statistically smaller than in past years, so population control would have to be extreme. It wouldn’t be able to just include new population, but also the older population. With science alone, people are living longer, people are birthing multiple babies..add in a few more factors and it’s clear that it will not slow down any time soon
agreed, unfortunately I am not a fan of mass murder. Like said without a predator that option is off the table. So the other option we is to give boot corporations and corporate guides policies and start using better and more easily renewable resources like hemp. Or this tech that 13 year old boy perfected the Tessa coil by making it where it gathers energy from the particles around it in the air.
Humans do have a predator…diseases of many faces.
Diseases then are failing their duties. because with enough healthy habits and alkaline diet disease can not survive in a human body.
Meat is good. So are vegetables. They go great together.
spelt iz better for us than wheat.. thats why thair isnt much on the shelves at the local supermarkets
Well no sh*t. If we just plain LIVE then we kill animals. We kill everything. But being veg can at least help slow down the process and help eliminate a lot of unnecessary torture and suffering. And because of that love for animals and nature we will innovate and find better ways as we already are doing. ✌
The vegans and vegetarians are having some cognitive dissonance.
Rodrigo an interesting point of view
Being vegan is the best we can do.
Humans eat less than 6 pounds of food per day, a cow eats over 110 pounds a day.
Cut out the “middle man” and get your nutrients from plants, 20- 26 people could be fed on that same “feed” grown for cattle.
The logic of this Argentinian fails.
So Kill the cows???
Totally agree. I see the point being made but rainforest isn’t being torn down to grow organic carrots now is it? It’s all this damn grain being fed to livestock.
??? What normal cow is eating over 110 lbs of food PER DAY? that’s crazy!
I seen an article from 2007 claiming this but they also said the food was wet… so naturally it’ll weigh more
Jose Chavez — that’s per a university extension office on the feeding of cattle.
Guess those that study how to feed cattle “feed” don’t know what they’re talking about.
Wendy Brown Barczak — Did I state anything to that degree? No. Don’t understand your comment. Has no value to the conversation.
Josh Blomfield — and most of that feed is filled with chemicals which get into the ground water and deteriorate the soil for the next crop.
Yeah, it’s a mess.
ma”am u nailed it thank you
Because people eat grass and hay
“Listen: This source claims that to feed just one omnivorous human requires more than three acres of land while all it takes to produce food for a vegan is one-sixth of an acre.”
The meat of one cow can provide approximately 85 people one 8 oz serving of beef. Beef contains essential nutrients such as iron and B12. You can find those in certain plants but there isnt as much as in beef. The real problem is people eating TOO MUCH meat. The demand is too high. Many of us need cut back on our meat intake because we have plenty of the nutrients found in meat but not as much as other nutrients found in fruits and vegetables. We are omnivores and humans will always eat meat.
Amanda Murdock — the only reason the majority of livestock have B-12 is because they are supplemented with it. Google it.
As for iron, I am at normal iron levels and get enough from my diet of plants. Iron is not required supplementation for anyone except for women who have lowered levels due to their menstruation and hormonal imbalance.
We get all our nutrients from the foods we eat, B-12 would be in abundance if it weren’t for current farming practices and the fact we drink filtered water. B-12 is a microbe, not an actual “vitamin”.
But do plants taste better? Not really … even if you do some magic, sprinkle spices, use different ingredients and products in the end even you vegetarian and vegan people try to copy the taste of chicken with soy or some other not so tasty crap that you want the rest of us to eat. Well sorry but I am going to continue my 4 times per week routine meat intake and live healthy and strong by not having to follow diets. I am sorry that there is so much brutality in the way animals are killed for food and would be happy if there was a way to implement a less painful death to them but this is life and we are the predators 🙁
Lol they do not eat 110lbs of food a day, hahahah
I grew up farming steer for beef. They ate maybe half a 50lb bail of hay per week. Id know, i fed them every day, along with our pigs that ate mostly our own fruit and veggie waste from our garden and maybe 50lbs of grain (between 6 pigs) every couple weeks
and you sure as hell dont wet it first, ever. Hahahaha
Grain fields dominate and they contribute heavily to the loss of diversity. Grains also dominate most people’s diets.
Cows generally eat 2.2-2.5 percent of their body weight per day. Seen many 4-5000 pound cows around lately?
Grass tastes like shit. Steak tastes like heaven. I’m gonna eat a 72 Oz steak tonight. Yeee haw
Find me a plant that can be cut into steaks. Until then I’ll be happily chewing on the flesh of cows.
Its about 50 lbs of hay and grain. Literally half.
Its better to have a well balanced diet. Fruit, veggies, and a little meat.
Just eat taco bell 24/7, works for me
By that logic: if we ate more meat, it would take care of the problem quicker.
Yeah cause gmo corn is super healthy for humans too
Your logic fails. The number one cause of deforestation is the commercial agriculture industry – specifically those involved with producing soya beans and palm oil. Commerical agriculture contributes to more than 40% of the total global destruction of our forests. You’re sadly mistaken if you believe that removing meat from your diet somehow contributes to improving the well-being of the planet when its the same multi-national corporate entities that practically own the worlds meat as well as vegetable industries.
Almost all of the world’s soy beans grown annually are fed to the livestock that you eat! YOUR logic failed lol.
Cows can eat grass
Andreas Kyriakides you got it perfect. Because of human rule this earth. That’s it
There’s not enough land on the planet to feed every cow in animal agriculture on grass
So vegans eat grass?
Jeff I was about to say the same damn thing. If a cow ate 110lbs of a day it would die. Thats over feeding it by a ton. I grew up on a farm also. We had maybe 15 cows at one time and they all together went threw one of those big bells of hay in 2-3 weeks. And they ate sweet feed once or twice a month and never ate it all. They like it but not that much. I feed chickens corn and kept their water buckets full and clean same goes for the pigs we had. Leftovers from certain foods and what was considered unedible by us like fruit that fell off of our trees. They didnt eat any where near that 110lbs of food a day shit.
Oh and we had goats. They all grazed for the most part though and they loved “feeding time” the females did because they got to relieve their milk filled bodies.
Not to mention then butt load of water these factory farmed animals consume.. it’s outrageous.
I don’t care what anyone says, living off a plant based diet sounds beyond unsatisfying..
Do research if you want. But nothing will seperate me from a burger with tots.
hows providing farm animals with water, wasteful? Let’s focus our attention on wine grapes… that right there is a big Waste of water. Look at California… too ignorant to ditch wine even though they’re going through a drought.
But that’s a different subject and animals don’t need to drink water… give them gatorade, it has electrolytes
Maybe herself in the mirror?
Not for nothin’ but cows do not eat 110lbs of food a day. Unfortunately, this gives your entire statement zero credibility. Sorry 🙁
Lol no thanks you can keep your gmo corn
Jose Chavez California is going through a drought largely due to companies like Nestle illegally pumping millions of gallons out and reselling it without paying for it themselves. Vineyards using water are nothing compared to that.
Jose Chavez Well done for coming into a reasoned debate with one of the most predictable and boring comments…..
Kev Whu Byrne – This “man-made product” is grown in fields everywhere – maize and other grains are the main ingredients…..
The justification for confining, torturing, mutilating and killing other living, feeling beings debunked in 1 min. Non-vegans: please stop making excuses and go VEGAN. ✌️http://bit.ly/2hZrqmH
Jose Chavez The justification for confining, torturing, mutilating and killing other living, feeling beings debunked in 1 min. Now please stop making excuses and go VEGAN. ✌️http://bit.ly/2hZrqmH
Wendy Brown Barczak What do you think happens to cows?
Jade Dorsett Some people, seriously. He just confirmed what we are saying in his denial. Lol.
“Logic”? I do not think you understand how science work, and how much work behind a study and the scrutiny before it is published.
Please STUDY before talking.
Another stupid article to try to stop the increase of vegans and vegetarians. I’m guessing the author was on the meat industry’s pay roll. Many of our crops are used to feed the animals that are largely over breeded and then slaughtered to feed all the meat eaters. It was a nice try but most vegans/vegetarians do their research which is why we choose to not eat meat. Plus, giving up meat is not just for animals. It also benefits to our health and helps the environment!
Agreed, but giving up meat is not necessarily better for our health. Eating a SMALL amount of quality red meat within a balanced, mostly plant based diet would be healthiest
No matter what the choice is it affects the world. It is childish to not understand that there is always a trade off.
150 billions animals (land and marine) are killed every year only in the USA..
95% of soy production is for animal comsumption.. this is fake news.
listen to this man
Look at Yellowstone park, before they reintroduced wolves into the park, the local herbivores were suffering because they were out consuming their food sources due to extensive overpopulation. There is a reason man screws up so many things… it takes a lot to calculate what every single action influences… and most don’t want to do that.
True. Should be fruigavors. Problem solved.
Too many meat eaters have no clue about what they’re putting in their bodies. But that same argument works for veggers. The goal should be that of wiccans….first, do no harm. All of us sitting on our phones and computers wasting time on Facebook are contributing to air and ground pollution. Unplug!
What if we run on solar or have an energy provider that offers a carbon neutral plan. Plus, the meat industry contributes more to greenhouse gasses and climate change than all of transport. And what even is a vegger..
🙂 vegger – vegan, vegetarian – eater of veggies. As far as unplugging, I was being somewhat ironic: I’m on both. However, the people reading this aren’t the ones that need convincing/encouragement about leaving a softer footprint on the earth.
Two silly arguments to continue mindless killing of animals in the guise of expert knowledge. Both failed miserably . He can still gnaw on his piece of meat if he wants to but people are not stupid . Animals are gran fed so they too require grains. Assuming that forest are being destroyed to grow crops is even sillier . Agricultural lands being wasted and converted into land for construction is the real issue. We can still preserve the Forest and the wildlife. And we can still grow crops and grow more trees in barren areas . Commercial animal farming has to stop . For reasons of global warming , carbon footprints , greenhouse gases , un-economic output and mindless cruelty for a few moments of gluttony . And these animals don’t Produce OXYGEN !!……the most important element to sustain life itself ……the author needs to get a life …..and brains need a bit of oxygen ……the soul knows what is wrong and what is right so living in denial also won’t help ….hope he does some soul searching …,
Lorna Donnelly I am making a bigger contribution being a Coeliac than you are being a Vegetarian it seems
I’ve read this flimsy argument before; that it continues to be circulated as if it’s a powerful revelation is embarrassing. NO ONE on this planet can say that they have never contributed, at the very least indirectly, to the death of a living being. However, being vegan is a lifestyle that seeks to eliminate harm to animals as much as possible. Claudio doesn’t seem to understand how supply and demand works. If less people are eating animals, that means less animals will even be brought into this world only to be abused and killed. He mentions veggie / grain farming but what he conveniently leaves out, is that most grains being produced are feeding livestock. The amount of land needed for vegetables and grain would be far less if animal consumption was low, and that would mean far less wildlife being killed for being “pests”. Most vegans are hyper aware of other factors that kill insects, birds, and other wildlife and as an example, stay away from foods produced with pesticides; opting for food that is locally grown, organic, non-gmo as much as possible. Paying for and participating in the killing of animals is significantly lower in a vegan lifestyle.
Very well said
If there were more people eating vegetables only, the amount of land would be less? That doesn’t make sense…
Plants are living beings too, in that case.
Carmo Andrade no, the amount of land needed for farming grains / veggies would be less. there is no way a human consumes as much grain as a cow does on a daily basis.
Carmo Andrade and i am not sure what your point is about plants… i am guessing it’s the whole “plants feel pain too” argument. if that’s the case, i encourage you to watch a video of someone harvesting grain and then one of a pig being slaughtered. spoiler alert, it’s not the same thing.
Carmo Andrade plants are not living in the same sense as cattle,sheep etc.
As long as humans consume grains and feed livestock grains that should otherwise be eating grass and insects then they are part of the problem.
What’s wrong with farming responsibly and treating the animals well? We probably should be having much less meat, and when we do farm with animals, they should be treated much better. Problem solved.
Eckard Nieman for people opposed to raising livestock for meat, the problem arises in their suffering for example a mother dairy cow feels emotional pain when her calf is torn from her care and dragged off to be slaughtered. A cow raised for meat feels fear when they are put on cattle trucks bound for the slaughterhouse, then the pain of having a captive Bolt pistol kill them or knock them senseless as they are cut apart for consumption. I suppose the question you need to ask yourself is, for a animal that is born purely to die, is that really a life that anything with the capacity to feel both emotional and physical pain deserves?
Yes ok.. you have a point. Organic production is much better than mono cropping and pesticides, but in order to produce organic vegetables you need animal input such as manure or blood and bone to provide plants with essential nutrients. So if you want to be vegan and not eat anything that has had animals involved in the process, then you can go and eat artificially produced vegetables. This makes this argument moot. Plants need animals and animals need plants. I used to be vegetarian but then I realized that it’s all just energy transfer…
Pretty sure animals can poo without being harmed
Jay Fitton that won’t be necessary as there are ways to farm crops without getting animals’ waste /bone / blood involved. They aren’t plentiful, but there are farms who already produce vegetables and grain using plant based methods. There is no reason not to believe that farming can and will keep evolving. There is no way I would cease being vegan just because I don’t have full control over what my food is grown in. Also, I don’t even think using manure to grow crops has to necessarily be part of an unethical industry. For example, I am not sure what places like the farm sanctuaries do with all of it, but it has to go somewhere anyway, and if it gets used to grow crops, which is the most eco-friendly thing to do, I don’t see a battle there worth fighting for animal lovers.
Most fruits and Vegetables are GMO and so many are disillusioned about this topic. Do some research, there is not much domestic food on this planet that has not been altered. I agree that an overhaul of the agricultural process should happen, but trust me, most farmers/meat processors don’t want to be cruel to animals.Happy animals make farmers a lot more money. Yes, things go wrong sometimes, welcome to life. Coming to you from an ex farmer.
Eckard Nieman what’s wrong with not eating someone that doesn’t want to be eaten. You can not kill humanely, it’s impossible. Farming responsibly would mean not farming animals for food, any other way is irresponsible and harmful to our planter and our bodies!
The justification for confining, torturing, mutilating and killing other living, feeling beings debunked in 1 min. Now please stop making excuses and go VEGAN. ✌️http://bit.ly/2hZrqmH
He does realise that a third of those crops are grown to feed livestock, right?
This is ridiculous! You need much more veggies to feed animals than you need to feed people. If the whole world would be vegeterian we would need far less space for growing vegetables and fruits!
Corn and wheat are generally unhealthy… those crops are grown in mass amounts by companies like Monsanto and have more harmful effects than killing birds. They kill bees and other pollinators, and put holes in your gut causing major food allergies. I could go on. It shouldn’t be a matter of vegetarian vs. meat eater. It should be healthful vs. harmful food; organically grown/raised (the way nature intented) vs. industrially grown.
And honestly, it seems like a larger growing percentage of people are understanding that.
15000 liters of water to produce 1kg of meat.
Deceptive partial truths. This apologist for the meat industry failed to point out that 50% of the world’s crop production is used to feed livestock, not to mention that this figure is as high as 70% in the US alone.
He is just saying that becoming a vegetarian doesn’t mean it will stop killing animals completely. That’s all, if you are vegetarian you are still contributing, don’t worry…
Eat in moderation. Do not waste. Be respectful of the animal. The body doesnt need that much meat. Too much can lead to a premature illness or death. Its simple.
What he says only applies to animals that are raised outside. There’s no “wildlife” in factory farms.
Plus the very valid point of the way higher amount of plants needed to feed the animals.
Haven’t read such a bullshit in a while!
I suggest this boet goes and watched fork over knives and cowspirasy and see it goes way just the killing of animals. Defrostation happens before space for the animals as well as plant food for animals and humans. Just their is probably some unethical farming practices going on. But the growth rate of animals is just not keeping up with the demand from humans hence why they are pumped with so much shit. Cows are one of the largest methane Gass producers which is destroying the ozone layer. The disease rates of cancer is increasing due to our shitty diets. I’m not say he is completely wrong but his article has kak loads of loop holes in
Can Vegans and Meat Eaters coexist and live together say in a marriage? (Just saying because nowadays everyone seems to break into groups and never really unite for anything, and when the call to unite comes everyone starts to argue and question each other). Fuck like I don’t give a shit if you eat plants the rest of your life why should you give a shit if I eat meat that’s what I am saying…. This is the problem with groups they all kind of tend to become fanatical to a point you judge people solely on things you think they are wrong for but they can be the best human being on the planet. If anything life is quite the conundrum
All meat eaters should mandatorily visit slaughterhouses and see the sacrifices these animals unwillingly make. When i see half a steak left on a restaurant plate i really want to slap the person wasting it.
That’s right. If we didn’t waste so much food, we wouldn’t need nearly as much land for grazing and crop production as we do now. Minimise waste, eat less meat, substitute beef for more sustainable red meat like kangaroo, venison etc…
this is serious and deep topic, I’ve read half of it right now rest I”ll read later and get back to you,for sure.
So is the wheat and corn raised where the rain forest was lost for the feeding of livestock for butcher or for human consumption. I think its for the meat. I became a vegetarian because when I looked at the meat I pictured the animal being killed… still hope that by not eating meat the humans will kill less animals.
“fields of wheat there are no birds” Yes.. the fields of wheat being grown to overfeed animals.. for humans to eat! If we ate the wheat or grew healthy veggie crops we’d use less land…
What a load of bollox this is! I think he wants to justify eating meat again because he has a craving for it, what an idiot.
As the world shifts more and more towards veganism, studies show that the food supply for animals is deminishing. Omnivores believe in equality, they eat meat, fruits and vegetables, without expecting praise.
Hari sir i would like to hear your views on this too,if you could please..
Haha thought this would get a reaction out of you.
The crazy shit meat eaters come up with to justify their meat eating… Seriously people, if you want to keep eating meat, then by all means, eat it. Just don’t come up with nonsense “research” to say vegans and vegetarians are hurting more animals than you, when they aren’t.
There are also a few other important benefits of being a vegetarian besides saving more animals, like better health (if you eat right) and it’s more environmental friendly.
Please don’t feel bad for eating meat when we present you with facts, just do your research and if it makes sense to you, then reducing your meat intake is already helping a lot.
Better health would be to still eat meat, just far less than we do now. Red meat once a week is enough… Some vegos are more unhealthy than meat eaters… All depends on quantity and quality of food
Also Eating plants its also killing. No discrimination to LIFE. Every natural process is there for a higher reason than the human thought. Arrogance i call it. Capitalism and its abuse to mother nature manifests in destruccion of all nature, not only animals. We dont change nothing not eating meat, we do change the world investing your money in local markets and organic and plant based medicines. Protect mother earth.. Not only animals.. Love to all.
you don’t benefit anything from not eating meat. so whats your point?
This way of thinking is very flawed, there is a much more simple solution. Grow your own food! Don’t kill the pest do your best to protect your food source from them. But if a rabbit gets a few leaves hey, thats the cycle of life, let it be!
If a rabbit gets a few leaves…..eat the rabbit. THAT’S the cycle of life. Plus rabbit is much more sustainable than beef
I’ll just have to starve then.
I hope this is fake for Argentina’s sake. Satire maybe? I dunno – this guy needs better friends.
Nah it’s for real, Claudio makes some good points about the impact on wild animals from farming vegetables, seems most just don’t like what he said because it offends them rather than trying to understand what he is saying.
There’s nothing subtle about what he’s saying, it’s quite simple – that’s the problem. He fails to even recognise the giant flaw in his assertion which seems to be common knowledge to most.
From what I can gather most of the ‘common knowledge’ seems to be assumption, not sure what his giant flaw is,
He ignores the fact that a huge portion of cropland is devoted to animal feed and biofuels – nothing to do with vegetarians – more to do with meat consumption. That makes it pretty big.
I hear his point but as in everything a balance must be found. Food statistics show that beef farming in particular has destroyed massive amount of ‘wild land’ so there you are killing both domestic and wild. Not a strong enough argument but I do hear what he is trying to say. Once again more people growning their own food and more use of permaculture farming is the answer.
Doesn’t most of our agriculture go to feeding livestock too?
It shouldn’t. Livestock should just be eating grass. If food was grown by family gardens instead of factory farms, a balance between wild and cultivated land could be met.
fair enough but we do have modern practices of farming & agriculture which almost nullify even these problems among many others. unfortunately they are still not practised on a wide scale
i actually thought you will say something like you can get the same nutrients from another source but obviously we have a dumb one here
Humans do not have carnivores digestive tract
bottom line meat eater or not..to sustain life one must kill….either animal or plant..ll food sourse at on time has been living , no matter if you eat beef or just wheat..it is all living a…we kill an so o animals to live that is the law of nature and nothing can change that…
Hahaha, i think i can post a bs and call myself some sort of naturalist too. The dude seems too much delusional. Because of meat and such products, so much animals are purposefully reared and where from do they feed them? What amount of plant life an animal eats and hence in few kilos of flesh that people eat of them , how much plants go along, whereas a vegetarian would perhaps eat that much plant in a year or two, maybe some amount less or more depending on the animal. And this crazy person should know that non veg people too consume vegetarian foods directly too. And talking about wheat fields and all, well even if i consider it, then it has to be attributed to increase in human population.
Animals eat animals . We’re in the animalia kingdom . Lol
You think a lion gives a fuck when it tears the throat out of a gazelle?
Hahahha most stupid thing I have EVER heard. Weil if the fields where all the plants are can’t be used by the wild animals, THEN you should know, how the domesticated animals are feeded: with plants!!! And they need a lot of plants! Plus the fields/ground used for the animals to stand on….
They are starving the poor animals I hunt
Claudio is probably being paid by the meat industry.
This article makes sense if you have no sense. Even though it might be true that by committing to a vegan lifestyle you are also killing animals, the damage is less. Take into account how much land you have to clear for cattle. How much water that cattle needs. The feed the cattle will consume. Them tell me if the damage is proportionate. I am not a vegan, I wish I could have the character vegans have. I am, in baby step, becoming vegetarian. I just hate the cruelty towards animal. I would never impose my beliefs on anyone. But cruelty towards animals says a lot about a society.
We already know know this fact right? But it’s Still better then eating over bloated cow fed corn for a living. Plus vegetarian diets cleanse your body.
Why don’t you directly say.. you can’t resist the taste of meat idiots..
I personally have been a non vegetarian ones… But fought with my own thoughts just to prevent life of that innocent creature… If you can’t become vegetarian then don’t become but don’t blame such sh.t on us.. we r far mentally stronger than u think.
some people clearly r profit motivated …
What was the actual point in this article essentially you kill animals whither you want to or not.
Mitchell Wood ….what’s this all about?
We all reap what we sow it’s About balance
I am not a vegetarian or a vegan ..I have no problem with people who want to be for whatever reason …but anyone will know that to grow any vegetable matter in your back yard or in a field you have to feed ..the food is either organic waste or chemicals ..right?
Already vast swathes of land across America and the rest of the world have turned into dust bowles making the earth baron because of continuous use of chemical fertilizers…. this doesn’t happen if you use organic waste. muck from animal farms is spread every year ..at least here in Britain. But still, too many chemicals are used to deal with the amount of growth. So many by-products of an animal is used daily from soap and washing and cleaning materials ..pet foods etc ..I don’t want vast chemical plants vomiting out waste into the atmosphere either ..seems that the problem might be just too many people on the planet and we need to eat much less ,meat and create less waste in our homes .
For every action there is an equal an opposite reaction.
This is nothing more than a tit for tat arguement for those who want to consume meat. A vegan doesnt consume a 10th of the amount of animals being slaughtered everyday . No relevations here just rhetoric
Is he really a naturalist or just cuckoo. What about the millions of tons of feed grown and trillions of litres of water that is wasted to raise factory farmed animals. Not to mention all the greenhouse gases just from their excretion. Somebody please check his real education. This guy is a retarded quack!
This doesn’t take in consideration a fact that those animals that you eat also eats something and if you are vegetarian cultivatoin of those fields is needed far less than to first feed an animal with the same crops and then eat that animal. This is simple, cow needs more food than a human does!
And planting lots of fruit tree would be good for everyone because raw is ideal for every animal and we would be eating so much less,because when you take your time,eat slower and chew,enjoy the food it takes about 15-20 min for the brain to detect that we’re full(maybe I’m wrong)
Analyze the human body 🙂
We don’t have big canines for tearing flesh ,claws for grabing pray,a jaw that goes only up and down,high acidity in our stomach for digesting raw flesh,short intestines etc.
One love 😉
This is really reaching lol.
He has a slight point, not the greatest point, but a point nonetheless.
Consequences. There’s one for EVERYTHING. At this point it’s gotten scary, the system of how we get any of our food has gone corrupt. So now as consumers, we gotta weight in the good, the bad, and the ugly. Choose accordingly, and may the odds be with you!
Small, local, and permaculture ….
Lol. Lone Argentinean scientist says entire UN science council is wrong….
Sounds like you found your self the food equivalent of a scientist who doesn’t believe in global warming…
What I always like is people won’t wear fur or leather b/c it came from an animal and that’s murder…. BUT they done blink an eye at wearing synthetic clothes that actually harm the enviroment both in production and decomposition. Go green wear fur!!!!!!!
this guy isnt very bright is he?
Once feel the soul of that creature (fish.. Etc) when u r killing them..
I’m glad so many people in the comments are calling this out. It took a lot of research before I made the decision to cut out meat – and one was the environmental impact. Growing livestock requires many many many times more grains/vegetables, water, and power than to simply eat the plants themselves and save the water. It is not efficient and it is worse for the environment (the number one factor in climate change is animal agriculture – yes, moreso than transportation!).
or lets all drink soylent, oh wait plants got feelings too
This is so true, the massive amounts of grain fields in North America has exploded the geese populations, to the point where most places you can harvest 25 per day, and for a month you can shoot as many as possible, with unrestricted magazine capacity, and using electronic calls, and the geese still grow in numbers
I am doing my best, but they want go back to the hunt area????
Yeah, but there’s a difference between requiring a dead body to eat and affecting environmental conditions by growing plants to eat. There is nothing inherently immoral about eating meat, but my point of view (and I think many others’ as well) is that it’s immoral because it requires the captive life and death of a sentient being.
But not like livestock maintenance.
It’s the reason of 85% of deforestation. In turn leading to Global warming.
Oops the scientist missed it dere .
This doesn’t account for all of the fields of grain used to feed livestock. These fields would be greatly reduced if everyone switched to plants only
Vertical Farming… problem solved, no need to kill anything.
This is very flawed information. Im not convinced. If I wrote this paper for school, I would surely get a C. Where are the facts? Im not a vegetarian, but I don’t see his logic really.
The way i see it. Theyre killing the animals. To not eat it once theyve been killed is a waste of animal.
Yeah plants have feelings too hahahahahaha
Well Aoife Walsh John O’Connor you having big steak when you come home
If the articles are posted to encourage discussion, they have succeeded. Is that not what we’re doing? Why are people getting so upset? We are all entitled to our opinions, however misguided they may be. I think I was prompted to comment mostly because I was disappointed that a fellow Argentine could be so close-minded. Also, the headline was very confrontational.
It is proven that if man didn’t eat meat your brain wouldn’t have developed to the point it has but after reading most of the comments here a lot of meat was wasted creating meat heads with canines that more than likely are anemic and iron deficient . Animals eat animals is it cruel when a zebra is killed by a lion no it’s nature and when all you vegetarians eat your eating my foods food so stop now before you starve all my food to death you cruel insensitive animals
They left out the part of tearing down of forest to grow crops to feed the animals that are needed to feed the meat eaters.
The man is 100% correct. But what do I know? I am just a member of PETA – people eating tasty animals.
surely a pissed off carnivorian who wrote that!
What do you think they feed those cows to get them to that size? According to the article “If all the grain currently fed to livestock in the United States were consumed directly by people, the number of people who could be fed would be nearly 800 million. Who eats more grain in a day a person or cow?buhttp://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat
Its an endless debate.
Being Non Vegerterian is a matter of taste rather than survival.
Human Beings have to be violent to survive.
1. If we grow crops and target wild animals , the wild animals will certainly find out their way.
But can this killing be compared with the deliberate reproduction and killing of lower animals?
The lower animals also depend on crops unless we eat Omnivores animals. So now we need to kill wild animals for the growth of crops to feed lower animals just to finally kill them again.
Isn’t it a very logical killing?
So first we should find the ways out to reduce violence
Industrial society has killed trillions of animals…….Industrial society has decimated millions of land and marine species…….Animal Holocaust came with industrialization……..Animal Holocaust is happening in this world every minute, every second…….It will continue as long as industrial society exists…….The only way to stop animal holocaust is by eradicating industrial society which has barely existed for hundred years…….There was very little killing of animals in pre-industrial society, so little that it was almost zero compared to the trillions of animals killed by industrial society…….Comparing pre-industrial killing of animals with industrial killing of animals is like comparing the Lamp with the Sun.
Everyone is killing animals in industrial society………Those who are not killing animals directly for food are killing them indirectly for consumer goods and services……..Industrial activity for production of consumer goods and services has destroyed forests and oceans which has killed billions of wild animals and fish…….Industrial activity for production of electricity, oil, car, computer, television, washing machine, mobile phone and thousands of other consumer goods and services has destroyed billions of acres of forests which has killed billions of wild animals.
Billions of acres of forests and billions of wild animals that lived in forests have been destroyed by Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Construction Industry, Electricity Industry, Oil Industry, Millions of kilometers of Road and Rail Networks, Hundreds of thousands of Ports and Airports.
Industrial activity for production of consumer goods and services has destroyed oceans which has killed billions of marine creatures.
Millions of tonnes of industrial chemicals, waste and oil spills have killed billions of fish and marine creatures.
Industrial activity has made the oceans acidic and warmer…….It has created oxygen deprived dead zones in oceans…….This has killed billions of fish.
Millions of tonnes of plastic waste has littered the land and oceans……..Millions of animals, coastal birds and fish are dying from either eating plastic or from getting entangled in plastic nets and ropes.
All this killing was absent in agrarian society……..Every citizen of industrial society is a serial killer of animals, trees, air, water and soil.
Industrial society has tortured, slaughtered and decimated millions of land and marine species………Industrial society has killed billions of wild animals and marine creatures by destroying forests and oceans with industrial activity for production of consumer goods and services……..Industrial society has killed trillions of farm animals in industrial slaughter houses……….Industrial society has killed trillions of fish with industrial fishing……..Industrial society has tortured millions of animals in zoos, circuses and science laboratories.
Animals and environment are not saved by activism, organizations, discussion, debate, argument, philosophy or terminology………For millions of years before industrialization they were not saved by any of these…….In the absence of industrial activity they got saved automatically.
Discussion cannot solve problems…….Millions of pages of debate is a disease of industrial society that invented the print industry, radio, television and internet………Millions of pages of debate is another toxic waste of industrial society which has also produced millions of tonnes of plastic waste, chemical waste, gaseous waste and e-waste.
Industrial slaughter houses came with industrialization……..Meat and Fish Industry (which exists because of electricity, oil, transportation and refrigeration) came with industrialization……..Industrial society has killed trillions of animals and fish.
There was very little killing of animals for food or any other reason in pre-industrial society.
Today you can go to the market and buy unlimited quantity of meat…….This was not possible in pre-industrial society when most of the people lived in villages and there was hardly any meat market.
The nonsense of eating meat or fish every day or several times a week is a consequence of industrialization.
In pre-industrial society only those who lived near the river or ocean could eat fish every day……….In industrial society billions of people who are living hundreds and thousands of miles away from rivers and oceans are eating fish every day or many times a week because of Industrial Fishing, Industrial Transportation, Industrial Refrigeration and Industrial Marketing.
In industrial society millions of tonnes of meat and fish are being sent from one country to another country, from one continent to another continent.
In pre-industrial society most of the meat eaters could eat meat only on special occasions.
In pre-industrial society most of the food was vegetarian most of the time.
In pre-industrial society most of the people were vegetarian most of the time.
In pre-industrial society very few animals and fish were available for killing and consumption in the absence of industrial farming of animals, industrial slaughter houses, industrial fishing, industrial transportation, industrial refrigeration, and industrial marketing.
In pre-industrial society bulls and cows were needed for ploughing and tilling the fields…….for milk and manure…….for drawing out water from the wells……Cow dung cakes were used as fuel for cooking …….There was no way farmers would kill them for meat because their very survival depended on them.
It was the arrival of tractors, electricity, diesel and electric pumps that made animals redundant for farming……..This led to mass slaughtering of cows.
Most of the people in this world are alive today because of cows and bulls………It was cows and bulls that kept people alive for 10,000 years during the agrarian stage……..It was cows and bulls that sustained agriculture and farming for 10,000 years during the agrarian stage.
Industrial society is slaughtering the very animal that kept its ancestors alive for 10,000 years in agrarian stage.
Posting horrific pictures of animal torture in slaughter houses will not stop the meat industry just like posting horrific pictures of war victims will not stop the war industry.
If I am not fighting the war in Syria and Iraq it doesn’t stop the war in Syria and Iraq……..If I don’t eat meat it doesn’t stop the meat industry…….Individual lifestyle changes cannot save animals or environment…….It is what the society does collectively that matters.
Largescale hunting and poaching is a consequence of industrialization…….There was hardly any global trade in animal organs in pre-industrial society in the absence of Transportation Industry, Communication Industry and Marketing Industry.
Torture of cows for milk is also a consequence of industrialization………In pre-industrial society more than 99% of population lived in villages……..Most people had cows……..People consumed milk produced by their own cows……..There was very little selling of milk for money or profit……..There was very little torture of cows for milk.
In industrial society the urban population is not producing milk……..It is buying milk with money……..This has led to largescale torture of cows………Milk industry is torturing cows……..Milk corporations are torturing cows…….When the cows stop producing milk they are sent to the slaughter houses.
Animals are not the only ones being killed by industrial society……..Industrial society has killed animals, trees, air, water and soil…….Industrial society has killed all living and non-living things on earth……..Industrial society has killed forests, rivers, oceans and atmosphere…….Every citizen of industrial society is a serial killer of animals, trees, air, water and soil.
Environment has been destroyed by Mining Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Electricity Industry, Oil Industry, Automobile and Rail Industry, Airline and Shipping Industry, Meat and Fishing Industry.
All industrial activity is interlinked and interdependent………Every industry promotes other industries………All industrial activity has collectively destroyed the planet.
Hundred years of industrial activity has destroyed what was created by nature in millions of years.
Industrialization = Destruction of forests, rivers, oceans and atmosphere.
Industrialization = Torture, slaughter and decimation of millions of species.
Industrialization = Billions of tonnes of plastic waste and chemical waste.
Industrialization = Billions of tonnes of gaseous waste and ewaste.
Industrialization = Killing of billions of acres of fertile soil with cement & concrete.
Industrialization = Butchering of trillions of animals in slaughter houses.
Industrialization = Poisoning of planet with nuclear waste for 50,000 years.
Industrialization = Decimation of fish in the oceans by industrial fishing.
Industrialization = Acidification and warming of the oceans.
Industrialization = Oxygen deprived dead zones in the oceans.
Man has spent more than 99.9% of his time on earth in non-industrial societies.
Man lived in forests for hundreds of thousands of years……..Man lived in agrarian society for 10,000 years……..Man has lived in industrial society for just about 100 years during which he has destroyed the entire planet.
If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.
If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.
That is the worth of Urban Jobs, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP.
Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.
Agrarian society was the limit for man on earth.
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Very interesting point of view
This is brainless! How on earth do we have to destroy forests for providing vegetables? Makes no sense, on current numbers farmers producing more crops than before its even being stored. There is no shortage of crops, hell Americans throw away 40% of food everyday. So on what basis this guy came out with this shit! I don’t understand, if people becomes vegan then we don’t be needing excess of crops to feed animals and care to grow them. Proud to being vegan
Humans just suck. We should all go back to being uncivilized wanderers and exist naturally on the earth instead of cultivating it for mass production. Let go of it all.
For all the vegans who justify by saying they don’t like to kill animal.
Although a vegan diet does not completely prevent harm to animals, it’s at least less harmful than a non-vegetarian diet and that’s the point they’re trying to make, I think.
It’s not the most scientific of studies, true. But don’t be a kill joy, niggi.
I don’t eat meat because I can’t stand to think of what it is ! I wish I could get over it, but I always think road kill.
Susan Westlake-Munro what do you think about this argument?
True that. But due to vegans & vegetarians there must be less of unnecessary animal abuse.
He’s got a point
What he’s failing to factor in is the land being cleared for grain is to feed cows.
vegetarians are monsters.
This guy is right when discussing many modern farming practices. But Ranchers are even worse on wild animals. And farming has only been like this in the last 100 years. And its changing. And its only large Ag. Non organic farms who do this. Vegetarians/Vegans have never supported these farming practices. Actually it is they who have faught to change them.
Good for thought .
This is stupid yeah he makes a shitty argument but there is no solution in his statement it’s just about how we are still contributing to the killing of animals vegan or not what’s this guy’s solution then if we can’t eat plants or animals lol
Yea that’s my foods food damn it.
Because vegetarians/vegans are the only ones who eat rice, corn and wheat, right..?
Claudio Bertonatti is a stupid person i can’t believe that a human like him exist, stupidity level to the fullest
Personally, I don’t want to be responsible the the violent slaughter, suffering and death of animals bred for their flesh. Secondly I do not wish to eat dead bodies & decomposed flesh. I am aware something has to die for me to live but I choose food with lower consciousness than sentient beings with families. There is nothing to eat with no loss of life unless yiu become a breatharian.
Meat is love.
Halooo vegans or not killings or whatever! We have to follow food chains or not the world will not keep on moving around!! Understand what i mean?!?!
People get way too offended over dumb shit like this. Its annoying. If you are going to get offended by an article why do you even go on the internet.
It’s the damn circle of life
Get over it! We r all gonna die too just enjoy the damn tacos!
Ha haaa…joke of the day..soo funny..:P poor bertonatti..this is just a damn personal opinion. While world organizations keep requesting from the people to go vegan to rescue the Planet Earth..this single man saying it doesnt make sense…who care about this fool :P…maybe trying to be popular..ha haa….this man doesnt know that f&cking animal industries killing the Planet Earth. This is the most stupid article ever seen……& also reporters should be more responsible…. today Mind Unleashed added a big black mark on them……
& also I lost the trust and respect…..dont promote these type of shits….haters gonna hate…Vegans are blessed…
<3 go vegan <3 save the planet!
Vegetarian or not – humans are a virulent plague.
Since the last 7 year’s, meat sales fell 16℅, Argentina #1 in sales of beef
Yes!!! Save the birds!! But growing more corn for cattle is always worse than growing it for a human since we consume only a fraction of what cattle will in their lifetime.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this guy is being payed by Argentinian meat lobbyists
well duh!!! he’s from meat freaking country, Argentina!!!!
Corn is REALLY bad for cows. No crops necessary, just grass.
Most cows are not grass fed.
And even if they are grass fed, how do you think the grasing grounds are made?! by curring down trees! 90% of all deforestation in Brazil is for freakin cows
I love meat!✊
Do any of you vegans own a cat?
they both taste good.
“This doesn’t fit my veiws, therefore, it is wrong” – V
So we are supposed to stop eating, everything and live off oxygen. Wow
Why vegetarians are so fucked up? Because they have low level of serotonin precursors in their blood. Thats why there are discontent and unhappy all the time.
How ridiculous! Seems that the guy doesn’t realise that the animals humans eat consume massive amounts of farmed crops and that more land is taken because of it! I do wish people would educate themselves fully before publicly spouting such rubbish.
Interesting, but not exactly accurate. ….
I love steak.
Both kill animals just different ones…
Hahahah what a crock! The deforestation is done to grow feed for the animals… humans consume waaaaaaY less than livestock ever would!
Stephanie Pagnillo this might be worth a look.
Pretty sure if I don’t eat meat…
Don’t wear fur or leather,
And don’t use animal byproducts…..
Then what someone else does to kill animals isn’t put on me….
I breath oxygen animals need to survive,
So therefor I kill animals?
I don’t hunt,
I rescue injured animals,
I feed strays,
And although I’m not vegan…
And still eat meat once every other month…
I’m pretty sure I’m going to feel good about myself despite what some fear based shit post says….
I don’t care bacon is delicious. You see a pet pig… I see a bacon tree
The majority of grain is fed to the animals that are used and abused by the big corporate meat industry!
Just eat in moderation that’s the whole case, we eat in such abundance that wildlife and nature are being destroyed.. it doesn’t matter if you’re a vegan vegetarian meat eater.. everything has impact no matter what..
Plants have their own type of intelligence and will respond to the world around them. In response to predators attacking them, they will emit signals to attract the right animals or insects to defend them. I think perhaps just eating a variety of different food items, instead of always eating so much of the same thing over and over again. Find out what is sustainable and what isn’t and avoid eating the ones that have a shortage for a while? Just my two cents, lol.
Remember peeps, we need Mother Earth (including all the animals, insects, and plants, etc.) more than she needs us. 😉
And your point is…?
Okay lets just not eat anything at all then for fuck sake and just starve to death
So what the hell we should do……… Eat meat & die of guilt…….. That my efforts are useless…. Huh….
This article is very illogical. Live stock uses a lot of land and then add on the land all of the veggies are grown on to feed livestock. Google carbon emissions from meat industry. It’s bad. One expert even goes as far as to say “giving up beef will reduce carbon foot print more than cars.” There are so many other reasons this is completely wrong.
What about animals who are tortured in the process that provide your meat and leather?
Don’t they deserve mercy??
This guy needs to broaden his perspective
This really makes no sense. It’s not that vegans think they don’t participate in killing – we all do by existing in our modern life. Just like we all destroy insects. You’re just trying to reduce the middle man, by being vegan. Animals, namely cattle, eat way more than even triple the food we do made from crops. Cut out the eating of the actual animal, and am extra 26 people could be fed from that grain and then if we stopped breeding them, they’re numbers would reduce. The Argentinian man makes no sense to me.
Vegans always have to say they are vegans keep it to yourself ! If you are a vegan I’m not interested and no one else is! Just to let u know
As a person with an enemy called INTRACTABLE PAIN. ..meat carries the highest concentration of the element SELENIUM. Which reduces pain. In fact if you have pain you are depleted of this element. It comes from the earth and it is in most everything we eat at different percentages …to get enough of it from other foods one would need to consume so much extra weight would result. 🙂
You do realize the leading cause of climate change is actually animal agriculture?! I feel this person is just trying to justify eating corpses
There will be no loss of forests if we used animal farming land for vegetable farming, less land is required. There are such things as nets too, like orchards use. I think this article is very one sided and not from a holistic view but a very personal view of just what they’ve seen not researched
Their is no easy solutions to this dilemma. Everything is alive, from lettuce to cows to oranges to wheat. The difference is in the way you honor and respect you source of food.
Stefany interesting viewpoint
lmao extremely accurate ma’am #StopVegans2017
We have enough to feed the world but not for greed.
Vegetarian is an old Indian word meaning fuckin’ terrible hunter
Yes- except over half of corn crops is used for the use of ethanol and animal feed lol
Amanda Abergel food for thought
Thanks! yes! its important to be aware of animal products too. I still have leather stuff either but haven’t purchased any new. Also a lot of products & foods contribute to animal cruelty including “fake” leather and stuff like that. I try to be as aware as possible and research companies I buy from now. I am not completely vegan yet but I do fully support it and is my aim 🙂 My main this is just that we need to be aware of where our money goes and the products/ companies we are supporting. I’m not perfect 🙂 I just don’t want to participate / contribute to these industries anymore if I can avoid it I will. My car still has leather seats too. bought it before the no meat thing. It’s been a process 🙂 thanks for your support !
Also Luke Siekris I love articles like this! perspective. But I’m more focused on factory farming of animals, and its processes in the MASSES. trust me lol it makes a big difference – buying power 🙂 consumer power !
Apparently you can say anything you like, follow it up with a bunch of nonsense, and not expect to be called out for shitty journalism? Dumbest thing ever. It takes at least 7 times the grain to to get an equal quantity of meat.
Becca Spence guess we just have to stop eating PERIOD dammit
Omg this is so stupid it hurts
Did you read the full article Kyle Webb?
Possibly the most retarded thing I’ve ever read
“We are forcing nature to make room for crops” – YES, crops to use to feed slaughterhouse animals. If everyone was growing as much food for human consumption as mentioned in the article there would be significant reduction in starvation.
It was already debunked many years ago http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat
As an ex farmer I can see his point. Modern mono cropping creates fields like dysfunctional deserts, no other life than the ones we want. As I can see from some of the comments there are some people who don’t run on fact or reason, just emotion.
Wow. For people that only eat salad.. you guys are salty..
I whole heartedly agree with the logic and theory but it avoids the major issue in eating animals – the ethical treatment of animals. I personally eat no vegetables and have a largely meat based diet. I have no issue with eating an animal, it’s life and death, it’s the circle of life goddamn it, but there is absolutely no reason that animal should suffer!! Some of its horrific!! Whether you eat meat or vegetables is not the issue if your going to rear animals for slaughter you don’t have to make them suffer? And why do they? Money!!! Well put the price of meat up n look after your livestock! Simple!
If nobody ate meat, more land would be given over to growing crops, farmers would see no need to raise animals so would not give them grazing room, very few would survive
I’ve read this before. I totally understand the point he’s making but also it doesn’t change the fact that I would rather not eat dead animals lol
Don’t eat wheat and corn products….eat fresh organic produce as local as possible
That argument is not logical because farmed animals consume much more plants and grains then humans. If everyone were vegan there would be much less need for fields to take rainforest because all the vegetables and grains would go directly to feeding people. Not to mention the water that livestock consume on factory farms. To say nothing of the suffering factory farmed animals endure. I am confident my choice to go vegan is the right one for the environment, animals, humans, and my health and conscience.
Thats y i choose voleterley not to eat animals 🙂
Whether we are meat eater or vegetarian we are all influencing number of animal wildlife and environment being destroyed directly or indirectly. I do not see point in arguing who contributing less or more to the issue.
Don’t post things about how to make the world more peaceful, then post pro-meat eating shit…There is nothing peaceful about the unnecessary death of 60 billion innocent beings every year. At least vegans are trying their best to make the world more peaceful.
This is the dumbest thing ever. Tag kiya b to kaise
This is a silly, irrational argument meant to make those who eat me feel a little less guilty about it. There is no research presented and no claims in his statement that couldn’t be easily dismantled with just a smidgen of research. Why share a post like this with no real content? Pointless, useless, and pathetic “share”.
We’ll sort of what I said but he did it in a far more journalistically well written manner
70 million cows being slaughtered every year and their blood being drained into the earth….is better than lettuce?
OMG now we can’t eat vegetable now!!!!
I’m vegetarian. (Not vegan) I see the point this dude is trying to make… however his logic is flawed in many ways. Also, Regardless of what you’re eating you’re causing harm or death to some sort of life form. Plants and fungus may not communicate on the same… let’s say, wavelength as humans but that doesn’t mean they don’t have “feelings” or “senses” we just lack the proper organs or cells to understand their communications.
We connect with seeing cows and pigs and foxes crying and screaming and bleeding because we do the same… and it is absolutely heart wrenching for me, personally to see that kind of suffering and know that it exists. So I choose not to eat meat. I am aware that I cannot stop it entirely and that the life cycle exists and works (in the natural world at least).
It’s obvious that no one can prevent ALL suffering. I mean… how would the wild and domestic predators eat?! It makes no sense to think in those terms.
However, I do believe we as humans, sentient omnivores and also apex predators, have a choice. With that choice comes responsibility. To the rest of our planet, to all life and to ourselves. We need to maintain a balance.
Moderation is key and at the point we’re at as a species, we truly need to tip the scales in the opposite direction. Heavily. Human greed is causing massive destruction and an imbalance. Eventually something will “cull the herd” so to speak… We tend to think we’re above everything. We’re not. Remember Ebola? It evolved for a reason. J/S.
Richie Thomas look at all those animals you are killing by not eating meat. Go back and eat a steak to save a bird.
What a stupid argument. Yeah of course animals will die when growing crops but 80% of all the world’s crops are fed to farmed animals. So if you don’t support that you’re killing a far less number.
This is ridiculous. Ofcourse uneducated misinformed and mentally challenged greedy carnivorous would jump on this one! Pffft . people who are this set in their ways unable to see beyond the actual truth and facts are just too much for me. Connie Fuentealba
This is the most stupid thing I’ve
ever read. The plantation of those corps of corn and all that is basically to feed the live stock of the meat industry which yes its destroying the environment. If we all humans have a plant base diet we wouldn’t even need to eat half of the plantations that they use to feed the animal. This post is so misinformation and a lot of people will fall for this.
I know thats what pisses me off. But honestly the only people who would are the ones who can’t stand to admit they are destroying the planet and killing sentient beings. Blah sickness!
Ian Anderson hahaha vegan would say do your research
Look it up in the urban dictionary!!
This is a little out there and extreme.
nevet thought about it like that!!
Rhonda Dankel Gowen
Cue angry vegan armies. Veganism is a cult…
The nets they use in orchards do keep most animals out but large numbers of birds, rabbits etc get in. A large part of orchard work is killing birds and rabbits etc. Specifically pushing baby birds and nests out of trees and hanging up mist nets that ensnare birds and leave them to die. The main focus is the quality of the fruit above all else. Not disagreeing with the argument, just pointing out that orchards are very much the types of agriculture he is talking about.
as a lot of ppl pointed out there – and I am suprised it was not mentioned in article – animals eat plants too! if you eat animals there is still need for cultivated plants they will eat, so if all had been eating meat only we would have even more areas for growing plants to feed animals.
cattle production is way down as people eat less and less red meat
time to eat argentinian naturalists
Exactly, not everyone is delusional, just trying to help as much as possible
There needs to be a major change globaly around farming in general.land needs to be used more efficiently. In your example of rabbits tbh they are an invasive species and effort must be spent to remove them from our country…. perhaps one day along side free range there will be a “low impact source” sticker showing tat the agricultural ethod used was as ecological as possible
Wow I never thought about this. Thank you for sharing. I’ll read more about the matter though since it’s called for. More evidence and proof.
Nevertheless, I personally don’t believe the killing of animals will diminish if I don’t eat them, same with plant cultivated fields. So I already gave up on the fact that humans including myself will stop harming animals, whether domestic or wildlife animals, though I still don’t want to eat them – the reasons got more personal and psychological here (will tell you why later).
i never knew that! That is really interesting
You just cannot win.
The average domestic animal eats much much more plant material than the average human. If all domestic animals bred for consumption were suddenly gone, I don’t know how much more or less farm land would be needed to fill the equivalent consumption needs of the meat that was being eaten. So, it is hard to judge how accurate this statement is.
Vegans are aware eating plants kills animals as well. Do we like it? No, but we do have to eat something.
The problem is overpopulation of humans. Less humans taxing the resources of the planet means less land needed to feed them all.
Also, farmers should be willing to share part of their yield with the animals who visit their fields, but that is radical talk and would be laughed at.
Thank you for sharing this.
I think Bertonatti is getting confused with the general impact global population growth has.
And look at the comments
We ever come together?
Even faced with trump
All we can do is vent our spleen on social networks.
God what a sad pathetic existence we have now.
Well done Zuckerberg
My issue is the suffering the animals endure. The way they’re raised and treated on the farms. I understand everything is connected.
Circle of Life – Some1 watched Lion King!
if less animals were eaten by humans, less land would be cultivated cause livestock needs far more cereals, grains,etc; in this case, less land would be needed for cultivation, so no deforestation needed. simple as that! don’t try to brainwash people and make them feel less guilty for meat consumption !!!
The nutrients in soil will deplete. That’s why cow poop is important.. Soil fertility,you think you can gain a crop on a barren land
Jason De Mesa Montalvo so according to your thinking cows should be raised for the importance of their and then killed for meat… hmmmm?! How come I never thought about that?!
I never mentioned cows should only exist for meat
What a pathetic, poorly reasoned article. This Argentinian has the reasoning ability of a village idiot. Being vegan is an attempt to minimise the suffering of sentient beings and a refusal to participate in the obscenity of breeding and killing 70 billion land animals per year globally (this staggering figure does not even take into account the billions of fish and other marine animals who are slaughtered each year for the palate pleasure of humans). Veganism is the choice to live mindfully and consciously, and to live in a way that recognises the sacredness of all life. Yes, we eat plants, because we have to eat. But there is no greater consumer of planted crops and the planet’s water resources than animal agriculture. Plant foods that could feed the starving people of the world are used to raise defenceless, vulnerable, sentient beings to be killed for the palate pleasure of privileged, entitled first world countries. The Amazon Forest is being destroyed at a rate of more than 5 rugby fields per day to make grazing land for ANIMAL AGRICULTURE!!! And it takes 2000 gallons of water to produce 1 pound of meat. Man’s addiction to flesh eating not only destroys 70 billion innocent lives per year, it destroys our ancient forests, our oceans and our planet.
Do you know vegetations are just as bad as meat eater for one plants have been proven to they feel pain can be effected by anaesthetic and they effect by people emotions. In short vegetations would rather kill an creature with no face cause it’s easier.
Leo Dillon you read the article right? His claim is that the land that we use for agricultural purposes is leading to deforestation and in turn the killing of those wild animals, you do know that roughly 66% of that land is used solely for growing feed for domesticated livestock and comparatively humans use about 8% of agricultural land for direct consumption. Also just because, the interviewer is the director of an exotic leather and luxurious goods company, there’s your bias. This is what’s called misinformation being used to cause confusion. Do me a favour and grab that cactus again, you know what to do.
If you knew me at all you’d know I could actually care less about any of this shit……eat meat, don’t eat meat, doesn’t affect me either way.
For the record, I LOVE steak and exotic leather goods…..
Oh I figured, you’re a smart guy, I got partway through writing that and was like, perfect way to reintroduce the cactus. For the record, everyone knows about your leather fetish and exotic dildo collection.
is nothing sacred!?!?!
This is scary, triggered vegans are on rampage.
But I don’t eat wheat, so how am I killing of wildlife ?
What if plants feel pain?
Not many valid points in the article. I love animals but first of all I use common sense when it comes to what I shove down my body: meats and animal related food takes for us humans to process way longer than vegetables, Its not that we are pure vegetarians by nature but our system does process vegetables in a more natural and quicker way than meat.
Read this Jamie Nay short read but what do you think?
A very exaggerated way of looking at it but i guess its right, the survival of one thing does in almost all cases relie on the death of another “circle of life kinda thing” although i guess most vegies make that choice to stop the suffering of animals which if everyone was vegie it would largly reduce animal suffering, but not necessa4ly death. I cant see the point in being vegie for that reason tho coz either way someones gunna eat the meat and if it gives you nutrition you need then i guess by natural selection you take it.. Such is life
I can see both views. Though I feel further reasearch should be done. As well as was this one farm? I don’t like factory farming and the amount of water that goes into factory farming and transportation and gmos. All of it costs so much money and pollutes our system. Obviously this isn’t a perfect world so yes I see where animals may die but if I can contribute to less mass slaughter then by all means no meat for me. Also my body doesn’t want it any more.
Really, the issue is that meat is irresponsibly produced and the whole process isn’t sustainable.. the no-meat movement is really about earth, not about the cute little bunny .
Wow! It’s just something for your bias brain to think about.. No need to get aggressive
The less people on this planet, the less animals get slaughtered. Pretty simple don’t you think?
Aww love you too
Lets just eat nothing at all
Fishing for vegans………
This is completely ridiculous and false. Do you know how many grains go to domestic animals in farm factories? And how much water is consumed by them? And how much methane is released? This page should not have posted such bs that will deter more people from the meat free lifestyle that would help the environment’S health and their own health.
Mmmmmm…. food for thought Lydia Brown
Guess you cant win… Thats it… Time for the dust diet 😉
A billion animals are killed annually to feed meat eaters. What do you think those animals eat? This article is fundamentally flawed.
Karla I definitely think the bigger issue is the clearing of forests for agriculture, be it for non-meat crops or to create grazing land for our herbivores destined for consumption. We’re damaging our atmosphere and wiping out whole populations of species. Your point of overpopulation is the root issue of course, and as our world populations continue to grow unchecked, this problem will become even more pervasive than it already is We’re all culpable for sure.
Michelle Sanders Frizzell interesting read.
That’s fine and good and I would eat vegan organic but the cost is way beyond my budget. Si it’s either move to the quickly disappearing rain forest or live my life moment by moment. The moment is over.
Ridiculous post. At least theyre trying to make a difference for others even animals. Most people live without thinking of how their choices affect the lives of others. Those researchers should put their brains to better use.
Lolololol Argentina? Corrupt country and one of the biggest benefactors of the castle industry.
He’s an idiot #primitive
Come on mate, you’re better than this!
The only thing I’m better than is 1000m in less than 180 seconds.
Don’t overthink this… every little bit of compassion for animals helps this world to be a better place … surely
Just don’t get why we don’t eat all the crops we feed the cows etc… #ditchmeat #saveouroxygen
I didnt read it but i thought u might like to educate urself
Lmao. Angry vegetarians everywhere
PETA Australia see if this makes sense to you guys now as I’ve left a few comments on your go vegan campaigns about this very prospect. This guy turned vegetarian in teenage years to HELP animals but later found he was only helping animals in farming not wild by his choice
Yeah, fair enough, anything related to mass production is not sustainable but that’s why we should embrace forest gardens and a natural approach to food consumption. Permaculture is the answer. Still believe a vegan opt is better than the omnivore way though (for innumerable reasons) Peace and V
I have been researching a lot to, here is a simple picture to show what I found on the agricultural side of things…
This shows how much land is needed to supply a year’s worth of food for a family.. the first smallest box is for Vegans, Second one is for the vegetarians and the two last ones are just for omnivores..
Seems to me if people would just grow their own food we would have less issues.
Save the animals from a slow death of malnutrition and starvation. Eat them quickly
Well, all are right in their opinion and observation in this world. Putting however most of the attention of the production of foods like corn solely on vegetarians and vegans? Hmm. Also, just to add, a lot of communities grown their own crops and live off those, it’s not like all veggies and vegans (#vgang) rely on the food system that encourages more rainforests to be destroyed. This article is quite a stretch
Izzie Edwards gotta stay up to date yall
Ejmin Gharibian what are your thoughts on this???
Oh no the truth hurts vegans denial.
Argentinian naturalist trying to justify the excessive daily meat bbqs they have over there! It’s all meat meat meat asados, culture built around it. Why did you post this silly perspective he’s not even correct. Don’t waste people’s time.
Who cares about the argument over eating meat and byproducts of animals or not. It’s “sustainability” that counts. A lot of vege types have no clue that their diet also contributes to the destruction of the environment via monoculture, fertilizers and it’s run off into waterways, and the amount of petrochemical based transport and mechanization required to keep humans fed. A good vegetarian/vegan who cares about environmental impacts should eat locally and sustainably, grow as much food themselves as they can (even apartment dwellers have done this) and learn about permaculture and FOOD FORESTS as the way to provide optimum nutrition while providing good stewardship of the planet’s resources. Just not eating meat is paying lip service to environmentalism and ethics. Read Bill Mollison, Masanobu Fukuoka, David Holmgren.
Smartest comment I have read thus far.
Cycle of life, all omnivores eat meat and plants. You ever see a dog eating a salad? Just be conscious about how much and where the meat and veg is sourced. Gmos are also doing a lot if damage to humans, wildlife and environment and they’re plants
Meat eaters will do or say anything to justify their disgusting habit, just like smokers, alcoholics and drug addicts. Eating meat not only causes suffering to animals, but causes disease and suffering to humans as well. I think deep down we all know this. Like they really care about wildlife. Sure.
This article has “Straw Man” written all over it. If I were to argue that 80 percent of deforestation in the Amazon rainforest is due to an increase in raising cattle for human consumption and the reply was, “well, you vegans eat wheat and corn and doing so forces nature to make room for those crops – which in turn can destabilize animal habitats…so there.” Research has shown that of all the agricultural land in the U.S., 80% is used to raise animals for food and grow grain to feed them. You could feed every living person on the planet with the amount of food which is produced for factory farms. But let’s focus on the “perceived misconceptions” of those vegans and vegetarians among us. The Mind Unleashed – If you talk with the majority of vegans/vegetarians, they are well informed on the issues and have made the choice to LIMIT the amount of unnecessary suffering in this world.
Meat is so yummy though I’d shoot a deer infront of its deer wife if I was hungry enough
What about the deforestation to make way for cattle grazing hundreds and hundreds of hectares of the Amazon have been destroyed for this purpose
Lolllll this is dumb …. The only example he had was birds been scared off and most crops r grown to feed cattle and than they torchered and killed so it’s double the damage lol. Sounds like my dad wrote that argument for an excuse to eat meat haha
Did you read this?
“Ranching-induced deforestation is one of the main causes of loss of some unique plant and animal species in the tropical rainforests of Central and South America as well as carbon release in the atmosphere,” said Henning Steinfeld, Chief of the FAO Livestock Information, Sector Analysis and Policy Branch.
Eat what you want and shut up. Unless you grow your own food and raise your own livestock you really can’t say shit that matters to each other.
I think the logic is flawed personally .
Probably written by someone in the cattle industry hahaha
“Diets rich in beef and other red meat can be bad for a person’s health. And the practice is equally bad for Earth’s biodiversity, according to a team of scientists who have fingered human carnivory—and its impact on land use—as the single biggest threat to much of the world’s flora and fauna.”
I agree with Sandra Lee. There should be population control. There are too many humans on the planet.
Hes not entirely wrong :3
yes it is because we need more farm land because of the growing population not vegans
Matt Tholen yes also vegans eat like 1/10 of what animals like cows eat
if only cows were carnivores
“Producing crops (soy, corn, wheat, etc.) for animal feed is many times more resource-intensive than using crops for direct human consumption. While there are perilous trade-offs related to fuel vs. food, a more serious concern for a variety of reasons is feed vs. food.
With 75% of all agricultural land used for animal production—and more than a third of global calories and half of global protein inefficiently used as animal feed —the impact of increasing global meat consumption is monumental.”
I just had goat meat and I’m not even sorry!
Those who want to protect animals, only want to protect some animals and not others. Animals with too many legs (octopus, centipede, shrimp, etc) and animals with too few legs (conch, eel, snake, etc) should die. Well, in some cases “should die” is too strong. But if these wrong legged living things eat your preferred plants, instant chemical weapons should be used for mass extermination. Worms, caterpillars, slugs, ants and in many cases larger: mice, squirrels, rabbits, coyotes, bears and others should die. This inconsistency is forgiven because they are sensitive sometimes to some species.
the time for hunter/gatherer revival IS NEAR!!!! AHAHAHA SERIOUSLY GUYZ
Michel Khoury, I didnt read the article, but the title in enough for me;) should I tag Noémie ?
Plants feel pain and has ability to remember like many other living things on earth.
I believe every living thing has a spirit including trees and plants.
At the end of the day, us humans have to consume living things to exist.
As much as i love animals and plants we cant just live on water.
We have to do our part by preserving the planet and its species but unfortunately we have to eat as well.
I think it’s balance that we are lacking.
Not enough love and sincerity and too much greed.
Yeah we have concrete evidence that plants aren’t self aware. This pseudo-esotertic nonsense that flies in the face of documented science really pissed me off
Sam Adisa they are still living things aren’t they? If they feel pain and has memory wouldn’t you think they are self aware in some kind of form ? Just because we don’t understand something does not mean its all nonsense somethings can not be explained with our understanding of the universe. Its all science. Science we don’t yet fully understand. I believe spiritual stuff and science are closely related
The forests are being cut down for livestock!!! The more livestock needed, the more forests are being cleared! The more meat eaters means more livestock. I’d rather clear small patches for gardens than huge patches for livestock.
Dumb argument. We use more land to graze cattle and grow feed for them than we would use to grow crops to feed humans.
Plants are living.. So your killing living things for you own profit whether it’s a “meat product” or a plant.
Exactly what so many above have said. More monocrops are grown for livestock than humans could ever possibly consume. If less livestock existed, so would less monocrops like soy and corn, and therefore less wild animals would die.
Yet again seeing twisted facts come out of what SHOULD be a reputable source but really just a puppet for an industry based on death and defilement.
LMAOOOO loss of forests ?!? Really ?! since when do humans eat leaves grass or trees ? Dude whoever made this article is either a complete moron or a fraud on so many levels. Not to mention this planet has more green resources than anything on this planet so I find it pretty ridiculous for someone to believe that we aren’t doing animals any good because on the contrary, we aren’t the ones contributing to their pain and suffering. And frankly considering how many of us vegans and vegetarians there are around the world, we are without a doubt making one hell of a difference even if the ignorant omnivores don’t see it
An absolutely ridiculous article. Thousands of acres of wild terrain such as the amazon is flattened to create space for cattle. And much of the land that is destroyed to farm grain is grain strictly to feed cattle. This article supports non truths and empty points. This is very disappointing.
And of course we have to hear this from an Argentinian.
Whatever helps them sleep at night I guess
Why are you vegetarians trying to guilt omnivores out of being omnivores.
If you can go against human nature, that’s cool, but it’s scientifically proven that we wouldn’t be as awesome as we are (evelutionary) if we had not been eating meat).
If you want to argue science with feelings, you’re as bad as the religious.
Bertonatti’s simplistic view does not account for growing all that grain to feed the huge population of livestock. His argument that in nature survival depends on the death of others does not define what is nature. As Colleen Patrick-Goudreau put it: Bringing animals into the world only to kill them is not part of the ‘cycle of nature.’ We artificially inseminate animals, kill them years before their life span is up, then justify it as ‘natural’, comparing ourselves to other animals who kill to survive’. Last time I looked, lions weren’t breeding gazelles.
Given there is 5 times more animals than people and that they also eat plant produce his arguments do not hold it. It is not vegetarians who contribute to the current state of deforestation and loss of wild life, it is actually meat lovers that do that, we feed the animals that feed us
He missed the point. We are not hunting animals, we are impreganating them. Thereby using more land. That’s animal farming.
Alternative facts coming from a country that idolizes the consumption of meat. Should I be surprised? Nope!
One day, humans will look upon the torture and murder of animals as vile and abhorrent. Many do now. They reject the status quo and the blind participation in the murder of animals and they thrive.
Eating the rotting flesh of animals is the cause of much suffering and disease in humans. One should not eat anything that causes disease.
Andygirl Elbe Interesting Read! Yes read it all!
I did. And yes in order to do no harm whatsoever I would have to be dead…
The amount of plant based food humans would need to grow if we didn’t eat meat is far less however to the amount needed to be grown for animal feed… to grow meat…
I challenge you to watch Forks over Knives and Cowspiracy…
6 padics of grain to feed 1 padic cows haven’t eaten meat for 42 years now 60 no health problems still like killing non natives
That’s the most ridiculous proposition ever. If you do eat meat you clear far more land than needed to grow plants to get that meat.
In Nz yes. Every where else grow grain by the mile to feed crate / prison kept animals it!!..no win situation! !!
You sill have to clear more acreage to grow enough grain for a cow compared to if it were used to just grow for humans directly.
I’m feeling ya!!!
Hahahaha and the vegans will never talk about over harvested wild edibles, the extinct or near extinct species of plants and fungi. They’ll never realize or admit a plant or fungi is just as much a cognizant or communal being as animal or human which has been proven. They’ll never admit it’s just as much a fad as many of the trendy diet claims. They’ll claim PETA is loving and innocent – when in reality they have been caught committing crimes against animals. Vegans are mostly people who won’t admit that man by nature is an omnivore for nutritional balance. Try selling you can survive in the wilderness on herbs, twigs and berries and every survivalist will laugh you into the ground.
Ok, but what if you grew your own garden and were a completely self-sustaining vegetarian?
So many people seemed to have missed the point. IF you are a vegetarian for the sole purpose of helping animals you are only helping the domesticated animals we eat. As the study shows a larger number and diversity of animals on say a cattle station as opposed to say a wheat farm. And in my view both are unnecessarily detrimental the the environment.
As for the debate of should man eat meat i believe nature tells us all we need to know. The majority of food we get from plans is seasonal. So would not be readily available on a day to day basis. Thus the need for another abundant source of food (MEAT). Could be why as far as im aware no native peoples were vegetarian.
confusing past and poor agricultural habits with the questions in veganism is poor thinking at best and really not the standard of thinking I would demand of someone with such a reputation.
I used to be a Nonveg lover and can eat almost anything but this one not in favor of animals just for your own good.
Maybe human should learn from buddha to eat 1 meal only (lesser meal)
I live in a state that hunting and farming is BIG! In the summer the farmers take out more deer at night than the hunters ever thought of. They have to. A heard of deer will absolutely destroy a field of soy beans or corn or even cotton. This can devastate a farmers yield. Same goes for wild hogs.
Instructor Andrew Serra
I’ve never heard this point of view.
1. Bulshit – for every cow we eat we need to take down much more forest space.
2. PERMACULTURE – learn about it – https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture
But in school we learn well tought plants are living things
You didn’t now corns has been killing savage fish in the forest for quite a while ?
Well you vegans would just have to keep up your abortion practice . Just a nother killing of life .
James Hunt time you stopped being vego
I’m running out of edible options.
Jessica Bova this is whati was trying to say talking about vegatariens
Everything has a soul.
Dana Alyssa what’s your opinion about the article?
Wow, very interesting
I think what the man is trying to say is if for the sake of animal welfare, you are a vegan, the only way you are going to not be in any way harming animals is to neck out so I don’t have to listen to your holier than thou bullshit while im enjoying my deluxe rib eye steak!
He is the one with a misconception. The cultivation of crops is mostly to feed animals nowadays, if we didn’t use it to feed animals we could easily eradicate starving ppl in the world. Watch Cowspiracy, it is explained in detail.
Everyone should watch Cowspiracy.
Whatever this crap is
It is an article made up and played for by the animal agriculture industry in attempts to justify destroying the planet
Please educate yourself and realize it is wrong on every level to have animals BRED and killed
Lol 😀 tel me how you eat meat without adding veggies to it
Just don’t eat. Simple. I heard they are making rice out of plastic these days in China.
Far more land is used up to grow all the food for the animals that are then slaughtered. So this article is not quite right.
Well what does he suggest we eat then? I’d still support the non eating of “domestic” animals- if you have ever seen a video inside a factory these animals are in misery their entire life. At least a wild animal was wild and experienced life. This article should not deter anyone from abstaining from meat. ✌
A cow has to eat 14-16 pounds of grain to produce just one pound of meat for consumption. How many people can 1 pound of meat feed? And how many people can 16 pounds of grain feed? So one block of land harvesting crops would feed many more people than would the same size block harvesting cattle for meat production. Therefore, if more people became vegetarians or vegans, far less land would have to be farmed for production of food than if there existed no vegetarians or vegans at all, therefore contributing less not only to the killing of the otherwise farmed animals but also the wild ones. So although I do agree that wild animals die for farmed land, far fewer of them would have to do so if no-one ate meat or wore leather.
Oh yeah and what about all the land it took to destroy to create miles and miles of cages for crowded cows I’ve seen in east California and Texas. Like I have cried from the 10 cows huddled in mud some laying on each other in a little metal box and there were hundreds of these little fenced in spaces crowding each other I don’t even understand how they got those cows in there it was so unimaginable….I can’t believe I have to explain….this article is crap, I would rather eat a plant then an animal that has a face and organs like me.
People dont realize that plants are Alive also. And are capable of suffering. They stay alive much longer than we do when they’re mutilated too. Some plants can be out od the round for days or weeks and still regrow. Showing fhey never died. They just sat slowly suffering to death
Benny Keatley didn’t you say this?
You mean kill the vegetarian and you will save birds?This may not be correct.I would amend your theory like this:Eat up all eggs so that nothing is left for hen to hatch.Introduce animal abortions so that animals don’t have babies for you to adopt,hug and suffer.
So grow your own food..
You can claim anything some will support and others may oppose.
Do what suits best for you? you need something to eat to satiate the hunger be it plant, animals fruits etc etc.
Think about people who doesnt have anything to eat. If you dont eat meat or veg donate.
At the end of the day someone is fed something thats Humanity.
They do it for moral reasons… Jacob Pendleton
Also he’s wrong since the vast majority of crops grown go to feed the billions of animals we slaughter
Also he’s wrong since the vast majority of crops grown go to feed the billions of animals we slaughter
eating meat is fine IF there were a few billion less humans to eat them AND if we did not use the meat industry in such a inhumane way.
I see a fundamental misunderstanding of the livestock industry by many of those commenting here. It is that grain is the normal and necessary food of domestic animals.
The reality is that the natural food of cattle and sheep is grass. On my property, every single sheep is eating grass. Over 90% of the sheep and cattle in Australia are pastured on grass, and the pastures that they graze are far more diverse and contain far more native species (both plant and animal) than grain fields in the same landscape.
What the critics further ignore, is that animals can eat a great deal of plant material that humans cannot….. and farmers simply cannot grow 100% human-quality food the whole time.
A spell of bad weather at harvest and the wheat that would have made your pasta or bread, is spoiled. If we cannot feed it to livestock, it must be wasted.
The oil that you use in your salad and cooking is only a fraction of the plant that is grown to produce it. The straw and protein meal that remain are valuable by-products if fed to animals, but are wasted if they cannot be used for that purpose.
We must rotate crops if we are to combat disease without using excessive chemicals, but not all alternative crops are something that you would want to eat.
Pasture is actually the most sustainable and fertility-budding regime for soil…. growing vegetables or crops requires more tillage, more energy, more diesel and produces more erosion…… but you can’t eat it.
Don’t talk about “research” without doing it yourself.
in my opinion, everyone over eats and wastes too much food.
The majority of earth’s crops (grain and legumes) are grown to feed cows. It takes a fraction of the amount of land mass (and damage to wildlife) to grow veggies to feed a person than it does to grow grain to feed a cow.
This entire article is bogus and misleading and serves only the meat and dairy industries.
Its a fact, that a lot of animal, that almost went extinct, were just bred again, to eat them :D. For a vegan, its a bit sad but for someone you likes to eat meat its nice xD.
I heard my lettuce screaming
I like my steak
My thoughts exactly
There are also holistic ways to repel animals by utilizing certain other animals or plants called companion planting. This sounds like a meat eater trying to illegitimately defend their belief by only comparing meat eating with conventional mono-cropping methods. It also excludes all of the environmental impacts of raising meat as well as all of the health benefits of a whole foods plant-based diet. I was born and raised in the midwest and ate meat for 25 years before I noticed too many cracks in what we are taught to ignore and began to educated myself to change my diet.
Following are a few of those impacts for anyone interested in learning:
What an absolute joke of an argument. This doesn’t even need debating, almost every comment on this highlights his simplistic point of view.
This is so stupid that I have no words. This man don’t know that at least 60% of vegetables are cultivated for aninals to eat…
Vegetarian “ism”. Vegan “ism”. their ideologies. Its means their beliefs aren’t necessarily rooted in facts, like many religions. Instead their rooted in doctrines that they are taught which may or may not be truth, but their views towards meat may be based off feelings , or some morality that has been taught to them by other followers or doctrines. PETA? Green Peace? these groups support Eco Terrorism , and misinformation to get their points across. Kind of how some people fly jets through buildings, or shoot up nightclubs for their faith. Supporting the firebombing of pounds, animal shelters, veterinarian’s offices and other things. Giving children boxes of bloodied chicken parts. Showing pictures of one incident and saying it represents and entire industry to promote your message…Not all farmers are horrible animal abusers. their are quite a few treat their animals right…Yes they eventually kill them for food but, they reduce their suffering. Not all sheep look bloodied and beaten after being sheared. Not all GMO’s are dangerous….Infact, humans have been genetically altering plants for decades. Deforestation and pollution is a problem but, it is caused by farms both raisin livestock, and growing produce. Both of which seem to have greener and more effective methods that only a few farmers are pioneering. lastly, there is no objectifiable morality that proves eating meat is evil. Probably the best method would be to balance out both meat and plants…also consider growing a taste for insects. Many countries already eat them….maybe its time first world nations join them…its just protein… and theres like billions of crickets out there.
This is a disappointment coming from this page, The Mind Unleashed. Veganism is about lessening our carbon footprint here on earth, lessening the harm we do to other sentient beings including mother nature. Lesser demand for animal products always helps…it may not deter killing and abuse altogether but it does HELP in sustaining which companies should thrive and continue. I seriously doubt the veracity of this article. Rejoice that some people could go vegan or vegetarian or even flexitarian….widening our circle of compassion to include animals and environment would prove to be so beneficial for this planet (healthy food also benefits the person). Veganism is essential also to spiritually enhance ourselves, for our ascension. Why try to discourage people from veganism when this is so good for the infinite ALL? <3
this is the stupidest argument I ve ever read. This Italian- Argentian funny guy is argumeting with this statement: “The first impact of such foods production is the loss of forests. We are forcing nature to make room for crops. Many rainforests around the globe disappeared due to wheat and corn fields.” 🙂 Most of this corps are using also for feed that animals that you want to eat or have a milk bro. Rain forest – soya beans for animals feeding. So this is not a argument against vegetarianism and veganism but against industrial – consum capitalsit economy. very very very weak – non argument. sorry. and this argument is nothing when you have your own self production like small gardens and so on, like fully raw Kristina and so on.
I love bacon. Bacon is great. I had bacon twice today. Bacon with breakfast and bacon in my veal burger. I eat plants also, but when possible i like my plants with some bacon also.
Not sure where the science is in this. There’s lots of quotes but little evidence. Having just read an evidence-based article countering this argument I’m dubious.
I think in most points he’s right. But if there were less production of meat, the huge slaughterhouses can be shut down and the livestock would be reduced, there were more ground for vegetabels and less animal feed to produce. So on one Hand he’s right, but He forget many points that have a big influence.
This is just another “alternative fact” meat eaters like to come up with to help them sleep at night.
We need less humans period
Years of research to make a stupid statement like this.even a 10yr old knows how much an animal eats or a human…and so on
Dylan share to JSDMS
U do it.
Nah I’m not evil don’t have the heart those poor vegans
They should go to this one city in India where there’s a temple, they have more cows than people because noone will do population control
Sounds delicious. And peaceful
This is a good response. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gwAaMXbOnE
Main problem is that production and grow domestic animals is always in grow but there is not needed bcs number of vegetarians is also in grow and companies who producing meat don”t care for that and continue to grow more animals for killing, directly they need more farms to make food for that animals and now we both destroy forests to make more farms, but if we continue and don’t use there products then profit will be lower, like so much more we make vege much they will collapse like revolution, maybe just maybe someday we all be vege and replace farms for food animals to kill in farms with live animals and crops for all people then i am sure will be less starving in whole planet
Thks article creates a perspective of thought for me that I had never thought of before. As vegetarians and vegans we like to think of ourselves as not contributing to the killing of animals, and although I chose not to eat dairy due to the killing that is involved there I had never considered the animals that are killed to protect a crop of grains, or even the animals that are killed to make room for a crop of vegetables. Here’s my humble opinion. I know that it takes much less room to grow vegetables and grains than to produce livestock, so I guess I have to be ok with that. The truth is that its impossible to live in this world without killing something, whether its an animal that walks in front of your car, even a fly or mosquito that’s you squash. For me the key is that I’m doing something at least, to minimise the suffering for other living things. It’s not a perfect system, not everything is saved, but I can say that by not eating meat of dairy I am at least doing something.
Wrong! The mistreatment of animals we consume thats what vegetarians are against. Mass production of meat, a cow giving life to meat, a chicken’s only purpose is eggs and discarded like trash afterwards.
Dude this is the most stupid thing i’ve ever read
Not a 0.1% convinced
Animals in nature do die from human impact as do plants but at least they don’t have to go through the horror of factory farming for meat production. Human beings presence on earth results in environmental impact, mostly negative, but this argument is circular and is just another meat eater trying to demonstrate that vegans and vegetarians fail in some way in their goal of helping animals. Just like when someone cruelly laughs at you for accidentally eating something that has an animal product in it. We can only try to do as much as we can to keep as many animals from suffering as possible and try to teach as many others to be compassionate towards animals. We just do our best and at least it’s something rather than pointing our that our existence is harmful.
Mono culture of any kind is bad for the environment. Probably the worst being Beef…. this is deeply flawed argument and I’m not even vegetarian
Why kill animals, just go to the supermarket a buy it , like most others do.
What a load of hoof! This is laughable & simply an obsurd argument
I know :p just sharing some info :p
https://youtu.be/mvGQpci9GIU Full movie with Spanish subtitles, if you watch it until the end, you’ll see where he is wrong. And of course, you can’t live without killing, this is samsara, and still, you can make a big change
It’s Not necessary that the Scientists are only smart people on the earth. They could be idiots too. History of bizarre animal experiments is a proof. In my opinion this is dumb post
Hahahah thanks for sharing :p
If Bertonatti was American, Trump would write an Executive Order for him to be the editor of Vegetarian Times. Yeah, saying that Trump would appoint you to any position is the new greatest insult.
Ooooo I don’t think so
The dumbest argument EVER! Last time I checked I ate far less grain than a cow
He is a moron.
Thats right. Dont kill the wild animals, instead breed and factory farm them under inhumane conditions, inject them with drugs, force feed them and then kill them for consumption! Thats better? Ridiculous. I dont even know why such stupid viewpoint is published on your page!
Suck eggs vegans…
this is scketch….first ..eating meat causes diseases…period…research heart surgon info…the facts are facts.
Sarah Sarah Hickey, fair point this fellow has, lucky, I can keep eating meat
Good point!! We better do our bit
It doesn’t really matter what we do since we are 2 many, wherever we go in nature we will disturb balance, because we are so unnaturally many. If we gonna keep be as many as we are, we need to find a way where we do not disturb the nature at all.
Interesting point of view but id say he was paid for it. If the amount of land used for rearing animals was used to grow crops instead the world would be abundant with food.
This sounds like Trump logic
Bullshit! I eat organic produce..and not commercially grown vegetables and grains. I do not contribute to killing wild insects birds by eating organic. If we are trying our best to stay healthy and cause less suffering by not killing and exploitation of animals. Please please explain if we are organic vegan what are we supposed to eat then? I think this article is bollocks as it suggests vegans and vegetarians are at fault for destroying the rainforest I strongly disagree with this. The only reason such crops are grown are probably GMO crops by Monsanto. They don’t care what impact and implications they have on ecosystems, nature and humans and animals.
oh no! i am falling in the dangerous way of my own nature!
lmfaooo noooo claudio bertonatti is a dumb ass
I don’t think this is why people are vegetarians. Its generally the sentinent beings like oh i dunno, living animals, that vegetarians want to save, not the plants. Oh and of course the fact that we currently live in a world where farmers in the U.K and U.S.A are giving fresh grain and water to animals that wouldn’t have ever been alive were they not forcefully produced through hormones/breeding so that i can have a greggs sausage roll whenever i like while there are children starving in the world essentially eating less than my mcdonalds burger is. Not to mention the damage it has on the enviroment.
Saving things that can be replanted within months with little cost to the enviroment? Not our biggest concern i don’t think.
The tag didn’t work properly but I’m gonna show you a documentary and some research journals tomorrow that’ll blow your little mind
This is bullshit, he is trying to prove his point through the actions of minorities, many vegetarians simply grow their crops in their small gardens that does not affect or help in killing any animal, on the contrary it will attract bees and birds. He thinks that all people aren’t educated or/and conscious enough about the ecosystem and how the cycle goes.
He clearly missed the whole point! Try again “Mr Argentinian Naturalist”
a very uneducated article…!! Paid again by the meat industry, eh??
Harriet thought you’d like to read this x
I don’t eat wheat and rarely eat corn products. Also like mentioned before most animals are vegetarians. So it is hard to agree with this article. She has the right to share her view about this but next time she might want to do more research on things.
Such a dumb argument. And unfortunately this page seem To support it. The majority of the crops are for cattle feeding. Too obvious.
It’s like saying we wouldn’t need oil if we all road our bikes to work… Retarded
And before u go crazy, no I do not agree with him. I think vegetarians just don’t want to support the abuse of animals in slaughterhouses. I just think it’s funny how people find something wrong with everything lol.
Sofía , Damn it , Both Ways Killing Animals
This is so stupid. What about the farm animals – they need plants grown for them to eat. And of course we all know farming animals for meat uses far more land and resources than farming vegetables. His arguments don’t even make sense.
So let’s not eat anything
So many triggered vegans lel
not a very convincing argument..
yea!! right just trying make himself feel justified each to his own, my family some are vegetarians some are meat eaters it is just a personal viewpoint if you are ok with eating meat that is your choice personally I prefer not to
Not only are fewer animals killed when we go vegan (http://www.animalvisuals.org/projects/data/1mc), but they’re also not systematically bred to suffer, ripped from their families, and mass slaughtered mostly as babies. The overwhelming majority of vegans divest from this cruel system not because they don’t like the taste of meat (look at the popularity of Gardein and Beyond Meat), but because they realize that it’s fundamentally wrong to inflict easily avoidable harm on innocents, and because the science shows that it’s nearly impossible to meet lower greenhouse emissions targets without a shift away from animal agriculture.
In addition, animal agriculture is not sustainable from an ecological or hunger perspective. The UN, the Worldwatch Institute, the Center for Biological Diversity, even National Geographic urge us to sharply reduce meat consumption in order to feed an ever-growing human population and preserve what’s left of the world’s natural resources.
Lots of vegetarians don’t eat meat out of protest how animals are reared and kept thought – not necessarily about the fact that they are killed.
What an idiot Who did this? If he wants many Kind of cancer or he likes to be sick is his problem not mine
You used to eat meat… don’t lie.
XD I used to not anymore that’s when I realize that dota is my food xD
You kill the Carrots…
Carla Gina bammmmm stop killing my food
This article is nonsense. He is actually describing problems of factory farming. My question is, who funded this travesty?
Takes 85% of our farmland to support livestock.
Dont attack the Vegans. They are not very bright, it’s not their fault. Their bodies are missing key nutrients for brain health only found in animal protein. Beans and supplements do not replace them.
Makes no sense at all.
There u go Shristi Shakya
Ok I get the argument but what is there left to eat? Either way people have to end up destroying the planet to some extent to survive…
So why not just east meat!
Ben, this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read… the majority of grains etc that are farmed in large quantities are to feed fecking livestock – If this is your way of defending what you do and the guilt inside of you then thumbs up pal – I am going to assume this is a joke on your behalf because I am pretty sure you are not dumb enough to think this is correct!
No thanks. I’m decreasing as much destruction as I can.
Killing an animal is murder! There is a soul in that animal body, just like a human!❤
You think you don’t kill dogs becouse you don’t eat dog meat? And so? Is this a reason for eat them? Obviously, if you kill dogs is not ethical kill dogs.
Some people, like asians, think that eating dogs, horses and cows is ethical.
Some people, like americans, think that eating dogs is not ethical, but eating horses and cows is ethical.
Some people, like british people, think that eating dogs and horses is not ethical, but eating cows is ethical.
Some people, like vegan, think think that eating dogs, horses and cows is not ethical.
This isn’t an argument against veganism. It is an argument against mono-cropping. People who are vegan for the animals also believe in diverse systems of growing food that benefits both humans and wildlife. I am a vegan and a strong supporter of permaculture. Permaculture mimics natural systems. Also left out of the argument is the fact that most mono-crops of grain only exist because we need food for livestock being raised in intensive systems. We already grow enough plant food to feed everyone, so these crops can be reverted to wildlife habitat. On top of this, all land currently being used for grazing can be reverted to wildlife habitat. While some wildlife species survive and even thrive on man-man pastures, this can create an imbalance where some species outnumber others. Most grazing land was previously forest, with thousands of hectares being cleared annually across the world for grazing land alone. Clearing for more land to grow food for livestock also continues. In arid zones such as outback Australia, the wildlife dynamics have been changed by graziers bringing permanent water sources into area that previously had seasonal water, resulting in exploding and permanent populations of kangaroos that grazed alongside the cattle and a placed burden upon the land that did not previously exist. The author of this article is not only basing his assumptions upon a particular type of vegetable food and wrongly predicting that these types of crop will become the main staple of vegans, but his standing as an environmentalist is damaged by his lack of ability to consider all of the facts in this argument.
Most obvious case of pseudoscience I’ve read. Author claims to be a naturalist, but the inaccuracies and assumptions in the article are frankly laughable. Where are the ratios of crops grown for livestock consumption, versus those grown for human consumption? Where are the studies that suggest this? Where’s the research?
The whole article reads like the ramblings of a guilty conscience, trying to deflect that guilt by accusing vegetarians and vegans of a non-existent bigger crime. It sounds like the kinds of things my guilt-ridden mind would come out with when I was trying to defend eating meat while my conscience struggled with the guilt. Been veggie for nearly 8 months and those excuses (because that is what these are) were silenced immediately.
Also, there are more reasons than ethics alone for being vegetarian or vegan. Health benefits being one such example. No mention of those in this article.
We’re all free to choose whether or not to eat meat. If the author’s taste for meat outweighs his guilty conscience, I’m happy for him, but he has no right to try to guilt-trip others by accusing them of a larger (non-existent) “crime” without a sliver of evidence.
Olivia Gould interesting perspective
“From the moment humans began to cultivate cereals and work in the fields, it has already made an impact on nature and especially the wildlife. There are no animal species that are not connected to the system, the survival of some depends on death, whether directly or indirectly. I understand that this knowledge can be painful. I’d like to live in an ideal world,”
Well as a vegetarian, I agree with these words. But I don’t agree at all with this : ‘all or nothing’ attitude. The conclusion drawn from ‘the survival of some depends on death, whether directly or indirectly. ‘ may be ‘So be it then. I can just go kill some animals and exploit the habitat whenever I like, even just for fun and so forth.’
But doesn’t it hold true for human vs human relation ? My being rich depends on some else’s being poor. This holds true for most economical relation tdoay. Maybe this mindset has to change. or maybe not I don’t know. But personally I prefer living in the opposite direction ‘as much as I can’. So no matter how wrong/ illogical / stupid one may sound, (if) the fact that he’s caring for some other species, makes me happy. We need more of such feelings / ideas. And we all know that we should do (or stop doing) much more than just stop eating meat. I’ve never met a vegetarian/vegan who says ‘I am vegetarian and that’s it. I am no more responsible for any environmental or animal- related issues of the world.
I agree that by being vegetarian you kill animals by indirect way !. but the livestock animals industry has much greater negative effect also in the enviroment and in the other wild animals ,thats because cows , chicken ,turkey ,etc these animals need big fields to live in so owner destroy the lands and forests in order to obtain these lands, in adittion to that these animals eat a huge amount of food, and in order to get that food owners cut the rain forests and destroy the home of alot of species .
So by eating meat you are doing more damage and killing more animals than from you being a vegetarian.!
From whatever angle you see it… the real problem is still human overpopulation!
Read down the comments u’ll get ur answer
I dont like meat, the taste cannibalism to me
This guy is an idiot. He’s saying that most of Amazon deforestation is for wheat and corn, which is true. However, that wheat and corn go to feed AGRICULTURE. Vegan and vegetarian impacts on the environment are exponentially less than that of a meat eater. Plus, I personally don’t want to consume the torture, misery, carnage, and absolute horror that factory farmed animals endure. No thanks.
Dumbest thing i have read :)))
…So, he took a walk through a wheat field and didn’t see any birds? this is his scientific research? Sorry, observation? For one wheat has become so bastardized there is little to no nutritional value to it at all. There would be no birds because there are none that would eat that shit willingly, and if they ate the wheat or insects they’d die from Glyphosate poisoning. Again no birds to see. We want scientific research!… When do we want it?… After peer review!
Sure we just survive of air then……. lol
Weird perspective and no proposal for change… forests are destroyed for cattle land too and grazing animals consume more calories in feed than produced. It’s important to understand connections and food production but it’s about minimizing not eliminating impact. Maybe better farms and sustainable foods are the solution instead of baiting people with blanket statements 🙂
Hey guess what veggie munchers, just cause you don’t eat meat, animals still die to get you your food! Combines used to clear wheat for example kill ground eating birds, baby deer, mice, snakes ect, the more you know
Siddhi Our only weapons against Non vegetarians is useless now. 🙁
Jignesh Gohil must read for you
Ok so yes unknowingly still some animal dies because of us humans not vegans but humans because grain and vegetables are not exclusively grown for us. It’s good to know that this happens! Vegans and vegetarian are growing in numbers so props to us by getting started! Instead of criticizing and making excuses why you can’t skip meat maybe this guy could use this info to improve things out there for the animal . Because nobody is saying we are perfect.
Alexandra OMG I WAS RIGHT! this is exactly the point i made xD just put in a must nicer way
Re I’ll still feel bad, there’s no logic
There’s no reason for you to feel bad, you choose to feel bad
we choose everything we do with our life, this argument is invalid
So why choose to feel bad?
Good reading I like to keep an open mind and do my research I do believe there are animals killed but its not a big enough argument as the meat you eat consumes that much grain etc… Meat eaters double this
The issue with sharing such an article is that you should also point out the invalid points with Claudio Bertonatti’s ‘research‘. It sounds like Claudio was sitting there and concluded such things with little consideration about how it all works. By sharing a foolish thought, can reflect on the quality of the articles you write.
It can appear you’re regurgitating other people’s articles without analysis or considering what impacts such bias and misinformation articles can have.
Whoever wrote this is mentally handicapped! Basically they just through together some bullshit. It takes much more deforestation to feed livestock than human beings!
I know most argentinians eat beef and pork with every meal so it’s very hard to have this conversation.
No ancient culture was ever vegan, or vegetarian. This is a brand new P.E.T.A. thing. No vegan knows anything about nutrition. Vegan = EPA/DHA omega-3, vitamin D, and B12 deficiencies. Three of the worst deficiencies that hurt you and give you serious mental health problems.
What do livestock animals grow on? GRAINS!! They feed them double the amount of grains needed to feed the entire humans! which results in a wider damaged forests, more wild animals killed, horrible amount of water 4 times as much water as the humans need.
This is completely false. Livestock animals eat exponentially more vegetation per capita than a vegan/vegetarian. Not only do you have to put land aside for the domesticated animals, you have to put land aside to grow the food for the animals as well. If nobody ate meat, you would no longer require the land (which is quite a lot) to raise the livestock. This is just an attempt to not feel bad for meat consumption by whoever wrote this fallacy.
So then are we to continue eating meat? What nonsense
Ok, i am convinced. I don’t want to hurt animals, so I am gonna eat meat again. Since i already eat vegetables and fruit and it harms animals, I should add in even more harm into my diet and eat animals flesh whos throats are slit. *sarcasm ends now*
This is the most stupid argument I have ever heard against not eating meat. Killings of a few birds compared to all the livestock that people consume every day? Also crop fields don’t destroy the rainforests. Greedy people who cut the trees all the time to make more and more money destroy the rainforests. This argument is so dumb that I can’t even stand it..
I think there’s a moral case for it. But there’s a moral case for a lot of things. There’s a moral case for the fact that if you look at deaths from starvation, human deaths, among children, forget everyone else, among children alone deaths from starvation, or starvation related diseases, are about twice the level of Rwanda. Not 100 days, but every day. OK, that’s a problem.
Now, you can say, well, let’s deal with both, and mention a thousand other problems. Let’s deal with them all. Time and energy happen to be finite. Which means you have to pick and choose. You can’t do everything. So, you have to set priorities. I could pick 20 other cases, but let’s pick this one. Suppose I have a choice between devoting energy and effort to writing books, and giving talks and so on, about trying to save the children, which is, you know, pennies a day, I mean, there’s almost nothing to it. Very little effort, to stop the double Rwanda style killing among children every day. And there’s a choice between that and essentially carrying out mass genocide of domesticated animals. Because that’s what vegetarianism means. It’s an effort to reduce animal suffering.
Suppose we all became vegetarians. The first thing you’d have to do is eliminate almost all domesticated animals because, well, they’re raised for eating meat. That’s why we have cows, chickens, sheep, you know, and so on and so forth. So, somehow, you got to get rid of them. You can’t just let them reproduce and proliferate. First of all, they’ll starve to death if you don’t feed them, so it would be genocide anyway. And that’s one of the immediate consequences of vegetarianism. You can pretend you don’t notice, but it is. So, ok, these are things to balance.
What is wrong with people why we have enough to justify what we eat ?? Keeping balance fighting the smother houses and indore farms where injustice is done supporting local humain farmers. U can’t force and expect others to change to what you what them but you can educate them how to do it right away do in moderation and articulate is kind of bull and I do eat meat and meat products
How infuriating. For the love of humanity I hope this is just trolling. The sad part is that so many people will read this and go about spewing the horrendous misinformation. Good to see all you well informed people speaking up here!
Nonsense article and I’m not vegetarian
It takes 70 billion animals to feed the 8 billion humans each year. These 70 billion animals take much more land to grow crops to feed these animals than humans. It is the main reason for deforestation and global warming if you believe in global warming. So I believe this guy is not correct in his assumptions.
Dianna Derigo what do you think?
I think this is an interesting thought but it is not a result of being vegetarian that causes these deaths, but rather a result of the overconsumption and wastefulness of resources by many industrialized areas of the world as well as a result of the rapid growing population. However, the effect of the death of animals, I believe, would never be comparable to eating meat on a regular basis. This argument can be made for nearly any aspect of the world that humans touch, there has to be a line because no matter what we do we are bound to have an effect on the ecosystem. Given this, I think it would be ignorant for this argument to persuade an individual in to not eating a plant based diet, because to me the logic is flawed.
I think I’ll just eat tissue paper that way no animals or plants are hurt.